OMG. SSP completely unfair!!

LinLui

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

By that measure, anyone with google would know the right things to say. But you seem to have a real downer on doctors. Is there any specific reason for that?  Occupational sick pay is hardly confined to doctors - the vast majority of health care professionals have OSP schemes, as do MANY other employers, not just in the public sector. Are you against OSP schemes generally, or just when doctors have them? Many of us with OSP get such schemes because our pay is below what we could earn in the private sector. So we effectively pay for them with lower wages. And self-employed business owners are always strongly advised to take out appropriate insurances to cover such eventualities for themselves. 

And yes, I am part of an OSP scheme, I am not a doctor, I get six months full pay and six months half pay after 5 years continuous service - and I have had a grand total of 31 weeks sickness in 45 years of full-time working, and for 26 of those weeks I actually also worked part-time from home whilst recovering from two rounds of major surgery.

The overall sickness rate for NHS staff is only around 5% and front-line workers are generally the ones with the highest rate. Given the pressures on NHS staff, maybe that small number of them off sick would be even lower if the investment to do the job properly, and to have decent terms and hours were available. You seem determined to say that NHS employees are lying about their sickness but have no evidence to support that. 

Kirkmain

LinLui said:

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

By that measure, anyone with google would know the right things to say. But you seem to have a real downer on doctors. Is there any specific reason for that?  Occupational sick pay is hardly confined to doctors - the vast majority of health care professionals have OSP schemes, as do MANY other employers, not just in the public sector. Are you against OSP schemes generally, or just when doctors have them? Many of us with OSP get such schemes because our pay is below what we could earn in the private sector. So we effectively pay for them with lower wages. And self-employed business owners are always strongly advised to take out appropriate insurances to cover such eventualities for themselves. 

And yes, I am part of an OSP scheme, I am not a doctor, I get six months full pay and six months half pay after 5 years continuous service - and I have had a grand total of 31 weeks sickness in 45 years of full-time working, and for 26 of those weeks I actually also worked part-time from home whilst recovering from two rounds of major surgery.

The overall sickness rate for NHS staff is only around 5% and front-line workers are generally the ones with the highest rate. Given the pressures on NHS staff, maybe that small number of them off sick would be even lower if the investment to do the job properly, and to have decent terms and hours were available. You seem determined to say that NHS employees are lying about their sickness but have no evidence to support that. 

The opening poster was saying how it was unfair that some people working two jobs might get an "unfair" £232 per week in SSP. I'm pointing out if thats unfair just wait to they learn there are people getting 6months full and 6 month half pay on £150,000 a year. The only people I can think off earn those kinds of numbers would be NHS consultants and GPs

MacPingu1986

Kirkmain said:

The opening poster was saying how it was unfair that some people working two jobs might get an "unfair" £232 per week in SSP. I'm pointing out if thats unfair just wait to they learn there are people getting 6months full and 6 month half pay on £150,000 a year. The only people I can think off earn those kinds of numbers would be NHS consultants and GPs

Lots of senior roles in the private sector (particularly in London) will have staff on high c£150K+ salaries with sick pay of a similar-ish or broadly comparable generosity. The data show's there isn't an issue with NHS Consultants faking absenteeism or faking sickness. 

I would *much* rather be healthy, earning my full salary, enjoying life and progressing with my career than being ill, unable to work & housebound with a ticking clock on when the sick pay ends.

LinLui

Kirkmain said:

LinLui said:

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

By that measure, anyone with google would know the right things to say. But you seem to have a real downer on doctors. Is there any specific reason for that?  Occupational sick pay is hardly confined to doctors - the vast majority of health care professionals have OSP schemes, as do MANY other employers, not just in the public sector. Are you against OSP schemes generally, or just when doctors have them? Many of us with OSP get such schemes because our pay is below what we could earn in the private sector. So we effectively pay for them with lower wages. And self-employed business owners are always strongly advised to take out appropriate insurances to cover such eventualities for themselves. 

And yes, I am part of an OSP scheme, I am not a doctor, I get six months full pay and six months half pay after 5 years continuous service - and I have had a grand total of 31 weeks sickness in 45 years of full-time working, and for 26 of those weeks I actually also worked part-time from home whilst recovering from two rounds of major surgery.

The overall sickness rate for NHS staff is only around 5% and front-line workers are generally the ones with the highest rate. Given the pressures on NHS staff, maybe that small number of them off sick would be even lower if the investment to do the job properly, and to have decent terms and hours were available. You seem determined to say that NHS employees are lying about their sickness but have no evidence to support that. 

The opening poster was saying how it was unfair that some people working two jobs might get an "unfair" £232 per week in SSP. I'm pointing out if thats unfair just wait to they learn there are people getting 6months full and 6 month half pay on £150,000 a year. The only people I can think off earn those kinds of numbers would be NHS consultants and GPs

You clearly don't get out much if you think there aren't many other people earning £150,000 a year. And most of them - in any sector of employment - will have excellent terms including occupational sick pay (and, in the private sector, a hell of a lot more than that).  And very, very few NHS doctors earn that much anyway - a handful who are at the very top of their profession, and willing to continue to work for the NHS (because most of them that good have buggered off to the private sector in the USA). 

But again I ask - what is your (inaccurate) downer on doctors, Your claims are simply not verfiable or accurate. 

And GP's are (a) still actually "small business people" and do not draw a wage from the NHS (b) definitely not generally earning that much. The highest paid full -timer at my sugery is earning £68,000 - they are required to provide transparency on their income. 

EnPointe

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

where does this 125 k figure come from ? 

because the  pay for a consultant with 19 years post CCT is  126 281

six months full pay  = 63140.50 + 6 months half pay  31570.25  = 94 710

as has been pointed out GP principals / partners are self employed 

 looks like  a  ignorant Jealous  fool who wants to privatise the profits and  nationalise the losses again ... 

if you choose to be self employed you have to take that risk , yopu also choose  to takea risk by not putting in place suitable income protection cover ... 

Kirkmain

EnPointe said:

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

where does this 125 k figure come from ? 

because the  pay for a consultant with 19 years post CCT is  126 281

six months full pay  = 63140.50 + 6 months half pay  31570.25  = 94 710

as has been pointed out GP principals / partners are self employed 

 looks like  a  ignorant Jealous  fool who wants to privatise the profits and  nationalise the losses again ... 

if you choose to be self employed you have to take that risk , yopu also choose  to takea risk by not putting in place suitable income protection cover ... 

A consultant with 20years experience only earns £126k. You're having lauf. But even using that underestimated figure, it's still £100k year sick pay when most people fet £116per week for a few months

Undervalued

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

where does this 125 k figure come from ? 

because the  pay for a consultant with 19 years post CCT is  126 281

six months full pay  = 63140.50 + 6 months half pay  31570.25  = 94 710

as has been pointed out GP principals / partners are self employed 

 looks like  a  ignorant Jealous  fool who wants to privatise the profits and  nationalise the losses again ... 

if you choose to be self employed you have to take that risk , yopu also choose  to takea risk by not putting in place suitable income protection cover ... 

A consultant with 20years experience only earns £126k. You're having lauf. But even using that underestimated figure, it's still £100k year sick pay when most people fet £116per week for a few months

Well, perhaps "most people" (your claim) should have paid more attention at school, then spent 6 years at medical school plus at least the same again in ongoing "on the job" training before they eventually get a six figure salary!

MacPingu1986

& not just paid a *bit* more attention in school... but score top academic qualifications throughout school and college, complete a tough medical degree, then complete 10+ years of further training and assessments to maybe become a consultant (only around 25% of doctors ever make it to consultant). Genuine academic and vocational high-fliers.

OP - It's completely standard for company sick pay to be linked to your pay in senior management and professional roles. Completely standard.

[Typo corrected as per Chrisbur's comment below]

chrisbur

MacPingu1986 said:

OP - It's completely standard for SSP to be linked to your pay in senior management and professional roles. Completely standard.

I think you meant company sick pay here.  SSP is a fixed amount once you qualify; the amount is the same whatever your earnings. 

Jude57

Kirkmain said:

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit

Anyone can take out insurance against illness or incapacity and loss of income, whether temporary or permanent, for a price. 

My late partner ran his own business and he had it. It was expensive, partly because his occupation was potentially dangerous but he certainly qualified as a small business, with him as the only permanent employee. He also, in the last contract he had, earned well over £150,000 p.a. because he was one of the few people in the UK with the skills and experience needed. For those thinking he must have been a GP or hospital consultant, you'd be wrong. He was an electrical contractor with decades of experience in industrial installation and decommissioning. He always felt that sickness and income cover as well as life cover was an essential business expense because if he was injured at work, it had the potential to be life-altering if not fatal. As it was, his final illness was unrelated to his work but the policy paid out, meaning he didn't have to worry about income and could access the private health care he had always paid for. He considered his income and wellbeing to be his own responsibility and took steps to protect himself although he understood that some self-employed people chose differently. He was never, though, scathing or contemptuous of those who were employed on decent terms, as I was, because he wasn't an envious person. If something didn't suit him, he took steps to change it or moved on. Self-reliance is, in my opinion, an underrated virtue.