OMG. SSP completely unfair!!

LightFlare

And yet there is still a staffing crisis in the NHS

if the pay is so great and the benefits/pension are  so great -- please explain

Its a real quandry

Kirkmain

LightFlare said:

And yet there is still a staffing crisis in the NHS

if the pay is so great and the benefits/pension are  so great -- please explain

Its a real quandry

Because benefits are soo generous that staff are being employed, but not actually going into work because they are claming long term sickness pay for trivial matters that, but for the genorous sick pay they would have mustered the strength and willpower to go into work?

Jude57

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

LinLui

TELLIT01 said:

The simple but sad truth is that if Statutory Sick Pay was higher more people would be off sick!

And the simple but sad truth is that if sick pay were not so low, fewer people would be working themselves into an early grave because they are too poor/ fearful to take time off work to recover from illness. But heh, I suppose it saves on pensions...

How quickly we recovered from the "pandemic years" when going to work whilst ill was social anathema. 

EnPointe

TELLIT01 said:

The simple but sad truth is that if Statutory Sick Pay was higher more people would be off sick!

this is frankly utter rubbish  

as demonstrated by the sickness figures in organisations with their own sick pay schemes   and the corrected figures for the Public sector 

EnPointe

LightFlare said:

And yet there is still a staffing crisis in the NHS

if the pay is so great and the benefits/pension are  so great -- please explain

Its a real quandry

NHS pay  lags where it should be , not only the fact that pay  has not kept pace with the cost of living , but with some of the politics around Banding of  certain roles ... 

do you know what the minimum NHS Agenda for change basic pay is for Emergency Ambulance Crew ?

a. £22,816
b.£25,147
c. £28,407
d.£35,392

???

EnPointe

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

LightFlare

EnPointe said:

LightFlare said:

And yet there is still a staffing crisis in the NHS

if the pay is so great and the benefits/pension are  so great -- please explain

Its a real quandry

NHS pay  lags where it should be , not only the fact that pay  has not kept pace with the cost of living , but with some of the politics around Banding of  certain roles ... 

do you know what the minimum NHS Agenda for change basic pay is for Emergency Ambulance Crew ?

a. £22,816
b.£25,147
c. £28,407
d.£35,392

???

Would depend on their qualifications and banding I suppose - could be anything from B4 to B6

An assistant is B4 so b)  --- going up to £27,596
A Trainee/New Paramendic   B5 so c)  --- going up to £34,581 -- which just happens to be the start point of my profession which has a Degree qualification requirement
Paramedic after 2 years d)  B6 --- £35,392 going up to £42,618
Senior Paramedic e) B7  --- £43,742 going up to £50,056


My post was meant to be a little tongue in cheek/sarcastic as I get a tad annoyed at people constantly bashing NHS staff and their amazing staff “benefits” whilst then complaining about staffing shortages 

Most of these people probably wouldn’t last a day let alone a week in most front line jobs

EnPointe

LightFlare said:

EnPointe said:

LightFlare said:

And yet there is still a staffing crisis in the NHS

if the pay is so great and the benefits/pension are  so great -- please explain

Its a real quandry

NHS pay  lags where it should be , not only the fact that pay  has not kept pace with the cost of living , but with some of the politics around Banding of  certain roles ... 

do you know what the minimum NHS Agenda for change basic pay is for Emergency Ambulance Crew ?

a. £22,816
b.£25,147
c. £28,407
d.£35,392

???

Would depend on their qualifications and banding I suppose - could be anything from B4 to B6

An assistant is B4 so b)  --- going up to £27,596
A Trainee/New Paramendic   B5 so c)  --- going up to £34,581 -- which just happens to be the start point of my profession which has a Degree qualification requirement
Paramedic after 2 years d)  B6 --- £35,392 going up to £42,618
Senior Paramedic e) B7  --- £43,742 going up to £50,056


My post was meant to be a little tongue in cheek/sarcastic as I get a tad annoyed at people constantly bashing NHS staff and their amazing staff “benefits” whilst then complaining about staffing shortages 

Most of these people probably wouldn’t last a day let alone a week in most front line jobs

the Answer is actually  a. 22816    as  a number of services have band 3 roles on the frontline  ECA/CCA/ASW/ASC, if those services use FREC   these people will have a level 4  qualification  ( having done FREC3 and 4 and their CERAD) 

even London has a frontline band 3 role  although that is there  Urgent tier / NEPTS role ( as traditional PTS  is almost universally contracted outin London  as private firms don;t have to pay London weighting so any bid  with AfC staff is uncompetitive)

1st Year  post Qualifying  Ambulance Techs are not 'assistants'  ( they  hold  either a Cert HE, the  the NQF4 Certificate for AAP or FREC5 (which is NQF5  but not a full weight  diploma)    they are paid band 4  as an Associate Practitioner  role  , and in most if not all services  Techs 1 + year Post Qualification are band 5  , but that is at least 2  if not  closer to 3 years  afdter starting withthe service... 

there are some services paying 'trainee techs'   the Band 4 training wage is is basically NMW

Kirkmain

EnPointe said:

Jude57 said:

Kirkmain said:

Barmy76 said:

I have just found out that someone working 2 part time jobs can claim SSP from both employers who are legally obliged to pay the full amount even though the person works part time.  effectively means that someon working 2 part timejobs can claim double the SSP that someone working 1 full time job can.   How on earth is this fair??   

Just wait until you find out a hospital consultant or GP who earns £150,000 a year gets 6months pay and 6 months half pay when they are off sick. They can not work for a whole year for all manner of reasons, including self declared "anxiety" or "burnout" or "depression" and be paid £122,500, plus employer NI and pension contributions for that year. How on earth is this fair??

I'm not sure where you're getting your information but GP's are private contractors. They are effectively self-employed and while they contract to provide services to the NHS and must comply with NHS guidelines relating to those services, they are not bound by, nor do they benefit from, NHS employment contracts in the way, say, a radiographer working in a hospital is. Their sickness absence policies do not have to be anywhere near as generous as you claim and most won't be. This is especially so for those GP practices now owned by American or other health companies. See here:

https://lowdownnhs.info/explainers/are-gps-already-privatised-or-still-part-of-the-nhs/

As to hospital consultants, doctors of all disciplines have by quite some margin the lowest rate of sickness absence in the NHS. Unsurprisingly, the staff at what might be deemed the 'sharp end', ambulance staff, nurses etc have higher rates of absence. See here:

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/august-2022-provisional-statistics

I'd add that I don't work in the NHS but I do have relatives who did or do currently. None would recognise your characterisation of their work ethic.

the other important thing to add here is that 'self declared' burnout  would  still require a Fit note statign the individual was unfit for work and  that Occy health agreed with that assessment 

Yes and any doctor would know how to say the "right" things and report the right symptoms to get the occupational health colleague to agree with them they have burnout. And voila! £125,000 to sit at home for year to recover. Whilst self-employed small business owners, those on SSP will never ever get such luxury and benefit