eBay Chargeback

WeAreValiant

Hello MSE Forum!

Hope you are all doing well this Wednesday night!

I am hoping for some guidance if I may .

I had an eBay account. This account was used to order several items, mainly mobile phones as I needed an upgraded device. I had a 'Z Fold' which broke due to my own stupidity so I needed to get something 'cheap' but good.

I ordered a number of items over several months on eBay (non-mobile phones, things like a laptop, phone cases) with no issue. However, when I ordered phones they would always arrive not as described. For clarity see below:
1. Phone A - Pixel 7 Pro - advertised with light scuffs. Phone had a cracked spider-webbed back and front. Opened case - returned - refunded. Video'd opening of item due to my own security.
2. Phone B - S21 Ultra - advertised as having a small scratch above camera. Phone had 100+ scratches on the screen. Asked for recourse (refund of £50 - screen wasn't broken but it wasn't pristine) - declined - Opened case - returned - refunded.
3. Phone C - iPhone - advertised as 'good' condition. Screen burn of the 'VISA' logo - visible on 'white' backgrounds or more prominent when watching content. Partial refund issued. Kept the item - still using this.

All in all I believe there were about 5 cases opened. Now, eBay banned my account (which is not at issue here - I can understand why). Cited reason was 'abuse of returns policy' due to buyers reporting that items were arriving damaged. 

Now, during this time, I had a device which advertised free returns as long as I pay postage. I had a play with the device but resolved that I did not like it and decided to stick with the iPhone. I wanted to use the free return as advertised which is the reason I bought the phone. Phone was not at fault (other than a network lock which wasn't advertised which a phone shop could sort) - was purchased from a business seller.

I couldn't (obviously) open this myself so I opened a live chat. Several eBay live chat representatives confirmed in writing that my recourse would need to be raising a 'chargeback' with the bank. I could not return the item. If I managed to get the seller's address and send it back, eBay said that there would be no way for the seller to refund me due to my account being suspended - I could not ask eBay to step in.

I questioned this as my concern was that it will leave the seller worse off (and if this was the case I would most definitely leave the item as it is). One associate confirmed that it will come out of eBay's funds, not the seller's. eBay said that I have no need to return the item, the seller is not to be penalised amongst various other things which I have kept transcripts for.

The charge back was approved - I still have possession of the item ready to return should the seller get in contact. All is fine except I have had a look online and have seen 'Debt Collections' and 'Small Claims' thrown up a lot.

My questions/concerns are:

1. I have opened this charge-back following advice from the provider eBay. I have no contact details for the seller due to account suspension. I disposed of the envelope when the item arrived so I have no address. eBay have refused point-blank to give me this to send the item back (said my bank would need to get this). Is eBay likely to now pursue me for the cost of this device?
2. Now this charge back is done, the seller has 'bricked' the phone. My concern is now - will the seller be likely to pursue me for the debt? If so, how would this usually work? Would they send me a letter before action which allows me to give them the item back? My concern is that I end up getting a letter inviting me to court in the post; as far as I know the seller has not been penalised but if they have I want to take all steps I can to reunite them with their device or money rather than this ending up at Small Claims.
3. How long do I need to hold the item before the seller contacts me?

I am just wondering if there is anything to be worried of? I have had a look through forums and the word 'fraud' comes up often which is the last thing I would want people to think. I have not acted in any way to deceive or abuse the returns process.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thank you.

soolin

I’m a little confused but hopefully have the gist of it. My worry here is the advice given to you by the eBay CS rep, they are notorious for giving appalling advice just to get people off the phone.

What reason did you give for the chargeback when you opened it with the bank ?  My knowledge of chargebacks is limited, and no doubt someone better able to advise will come along and help you much better than I can, however I understood a chargeback can be reversed, and also the person initiating it can be chased for payment. There are variables and I found this article 

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-use-chargeback-abZ2d4z3nT8q

Which doesn’t mention trying to enforce a change of mind return.


It says :

Your money back for something you've paid for.  

It can apply if goods are damaged, not as described, or haven't been delivered. 

It works by your bank withdrawing funds that were previously deposited into the recipient's bank account and putting them back into your account.

The recipient may dispute a chargeback with the bank if it can prove it is invalid.

screech_78

Chargebacks have no place in law. They are dealt with solely by the card issuer and so if they wanted to chase this, they certainly can through small claims. It would then be up to a judge to decide. 

WeAreValiant

Hi Soolin

Thanks for the response. Sorry takes a while to reply due to phone.

So the chargeback was raised in Feb. The bank said they have to allow 45 days. To date nothing has been challenged and they have until Monday for any submissions otherwise it is successful. The reason given was a copy of ebays transcript confirming I need to charge back due to item not being needed. It was a weird case the bank said but not fully unusual so they were happy to process.

Re the eBay rep I agree entirely. The precautions I had taken were to do it over live chat and try to do it during working hours.for the UK staff to respond. 

I got through to.different advisors who all reiterated that a charge back is the best way to do it and that they are unable to help. I would understand if one said it that it could be an anomaly but now that several have done so it is more likely to be right.

WeAreValiant

screech_78 said:

Chargebacks have no place in law. They are dealt with solely by the card issuer and so if they wanted to chase this, they certainly can through small claims. It would then be up to a judge to decide. 

Hi screech 78 thank you for your message. In this case would I have a chance to "right wrongs" so to say by giving the item back or would it go straight to court?

born_again

WeAreValiant said:

Hi Soolin

Thanks for the response. Sorry takes a while to reply due to phone.

So the chargeback was raised in Feb. The bank said they have to allow 45 days. To date nothing has been challenged and they have until Monday for any submissions otherwise it is successful. The reason given was a copy of ebays transcript confirming I need to charge back due to item not being needed. It was a weird case the bank said but not fully unusual so they were happy to process.

Re the eBay rep I agree entirely. The precautions I had taken were to do it over live chat and try to do it during working hours.for the UK staff to respond. 

I got through to.different advisors who all reiterated that a charge back is the best way to do it and that they are unable to help. I would understand if one said it that it could be an anomaly but now that several have done so it is more likely to be right.

Do not expect a answer from bank at that time it is all resolved. As it can take a while for any rejections to be picked up by banks. As it is a external system, so has to be picked up when staff have time.

Given the number of returns, it's no surprise that they have closed your account & adding a chargeback into the mix, will have been the final nail.

Even if you win the chargeback (they have no legal standing) so the seller can still take you to court for the funds, as you can't have both a refund & the goods.

WeAreValiant

born_again said:

WeAreValiant said:

Hi Soolin

Thanks for the response. Sorry takes a while to reply due to phone.

So the chargeback was raised in Feb. The bank said they have to allow 45 days. To date nothing has been challenged and they have until Monday for any submissions otherwise it is successful. The reason given was a copy of ebays transcript confirming I need to charge back due to item not being needed. It was a weird case the bank said but not fully unusual so they were happy to process.

Re the eBay rep I agree entirely. The precautions I had taken were to do it over live chat and try to do it during working hours.for the UK staff to respond. 

I got through to.different advisors who all reiterated that a charge back is the best way to do it and that they are unable to help. I would understand if one said it that it could be an anomaly but now that several have done so it is more likely to be right.

Do not expect a answer from bank at that time it is all resolved. As it can take a while for any rejections to be picked up by banks. As it is a external system, so has to be picked up when staff have time.

Given the number of returns, it's no surprise that they have closed your account & adding a chargeback into the mix, will have been the final nail.

Even if you win the chargeback (they have no legal standing) so the seller can still take you to court for the funds, as you can't have both a refund & the goods.

Hi thanks for your response. The chargeback was raised after closure as I wanted to return.

Would the seller send me a letter usually explaining that they want their money back? As stated eBay said that the seller would not be out of pocket as their instructions were to do a chargeback due to.my account closure. I did it this way as instructed by eBay who said the seller is not going to be penalised but obviously if the seller is out of pocket I want to.make this right without it ending up at court.

born_again

Clearly seller has your address. But taking the nuclear chargeback route may just make them not want to engage other than via courts.

Don't know how ebay can say seller is not going to be penalised as they have lost both money & goods... Sure ebay may not close their account. But that is no compensation.

In reality all you can do is plead with ebay to pass sellers details onto you so you can send the goods back. Can't see why they would not do that.

WeAreValiant

born_again said:

Clearly seller has your address. But taking the nuclear chargeback route may just make them not want to engage other than via courts.

Don't know how ebay can say seller is not going to be penalised as they have lost both money & goods... Sure ebay may not close their account. But that is no compensation.

In reality all you can do is plead with ebay to pass sellers details onto you so you can send the goods back. Can't see why they would not do that.

So I asked eBay how this works when it happened. They explained that this comes out of ebays central fund rather than the seller being charged so eBay would if anything pursue me but not charge the seller. Believe me the last thing I wanted to do was charge back but eBay said that this was my only option so I took it at the direct advice of them. Even if I could have done the return via ebay they explained I would not get a refund as there is no way for anyone to intervene on a suspended account.


Ebay have said they can't give the details simply because I am suspended. They cannot access any information even once provided with the seller's eBay ID apparently and are not willing to assist with this even before I raised the chargeback.

I am happy to send the item back I just do not know where to or what the best course of action is.

screech_78

WeAreValiant said:

screech_78 said:

Chargebacks have no place in law. They are dealt with solely by the card issuer and so if they wanted to chase this, they certainly can through small claims. It would then be up to a judge to decide. 

Hi screech 78 thank you for your message. In this case would I have a chance to "right wrongs" so to say by giving the item back or would it go straight to court?

Anyone can take you to court. Whether they have a case or not is another thing. 

Keep hold of the phone and any communication you have that shows you’ve tried to return it. They have up to 6 years to take further action. They’re not going to get very far though if you can show you’ve tried to return it and are still willing to do so. 

WeAreValiant

screech_78 said:

WeAreValiant said:

screech_78 said:

Chargebacks have no place in law. They are dealt with solely by the card issuer and so if they wanted to chase this, they certainly can through small claims. It would then be up to a judge to decide. 

Hi screech 78 thank you for your message. In this case would I have a chance to "right wrongs" so to say by giving the item back or would it go straight to court?

Anyone can take you to court. Whether they have a case or not is another thing. 

Keep hold of the phone and any communication you have that shows you’ve tried to return it. They have up to 6 years to take further action. They’re not going to get very far though if you can show you’ve tried to return it and are still willing to do so. 

Thank you.