Rules re listing bedrooms

Khaderbhai

Thanks all. The jobs involved are ones like getting the smoke alarms tested, extending the soil pipe a smidge and replacing old door with an increased fire reg one.

Understand points re 3rd bedroom but we as buyers obviously looked past this point so assume others could, but yes agree the jobs would be the best route so its all rubber stamped. 

RHemmings

Khaderbhai said:

Thanks all. The jobs involved are ones like getting the smoke alarms tested, extending the soil pipe a smidge and replacing old door with an increased fire reg one.

Understand points re 3rd bedroom but we as buyers obviously looked past this point so assume others could, but yes agree the jobs would be the best route so its all rubber stamped. 

Good to hear, but if you're living in the property wouldn't it be better to do the fire safety stuff in any case even if you weren't wanting to sell? 

theartfullodger

See the overcrowding section on Shelter's website which gives minimum sizes for double, single and 1/2 person (child under 10) bedrooms.

Amazing how many "experts" and estate/letting agents claim to have no knowledge of these regulations.

Best wishes to all.

hazyjo

theartfullodger said:

See the overcrowding section on Shelter's website which gives minimum sizes for double, single and 1/2 person (child under 10) bedrooms.

Amazing how many "experts" and estate/letting agents claim to have no knowledge of these regulations.

Best wishes to all.

Thought they only applied to rentals/council/HA properties?

UnderOffer

You may find if you advertise as 3 beds any potential buyer who then requires a mortgage, when the bank does an evaluation they deem it as 2 bed as the 3rd has no building regs. Our friends had their mortgage declined in similar circumstances when they viewed a “4 bed” which was just a 3 with loft conversion and no sign off. 

Did you buy as advertised as 2 bed but with the conversion already completed? 

Robbo66

With recent changes to the relevant information legislation, the agent will have to tell any prospective purchaser that there has been no sign off. Any solicitor worth their salt would want to see completed building regs sign off as part of the conveyancing process

Khaderbhai

RHemmings said:

Khaderbhai said:

Thanks all. The jobs involved are ones like getting the smoke alarms tested, extending the soil pipe a smidge and replacing old door with an increased fire reg one.

Understand points re 3rd bedroom but we as buyers obviously looked past this point so assume others could, but yes agree the jobs would be the best route so its all rubber stamped. 

Good to hear, but if you're living in the property wouldn't it be better to do the fire safety stuff in any case even if you weren't wanting to sell? 

Yes ideally, test the smoke alarms regularly but get your point. How many people actually know there house inside out though once a bedroom has been signed off? If you’re not a ‘tradey’ would you know if you had a fire door or if it was just installed to get building regs sign off and then removed at a later date to a non-fire door for example, how often do people get smoke alarms tested once they are signed off, probably never?!

UnderOffer said:

You may find if you advertise as 3 beds any potential buyer who then requires a mortgage, when the bank does an evaluation they deem it as 2 bed as the 3rd has no building regs. Our friends had their mortgage declined in similar circumstances when they viewed a “4 bed” which was just a 3 with loft conversion and no sign off. 

Did you buy as advertised as 2 bed but with the conversion already completed? 

Yes bought as a 2 bed. The loft room is spacious and very liveable, velux windows, en suite, home office, enough room for 2 double beds plus storage in the eaves. We could look past the official bedroom downgrade and saw the potential but yes I do get others may not, or may put people off etc.

Thanks

Smalltownhypocrite

You can't call it a loft bedroom if it isn't legal.

That doesn't mean a buyer can't put a bed their if they choose but legally you can't sell it as a bedroom. EA should be aware of that and likely wont let you list it as a bedroom. You could probably call it a home office or cinema room etc... though

EssexHebridean

eddddy said:

EssexHebridean said:

If the property is marketed as a 3-bed - and ultimately the seller has the final call on this 

Not really...

As I say, it's the Estate Agent who has the ultimate call on this - because they won't agree to break the law and/or make themselves liable to pay compensation, just because a seller tells them to.

Trading Standards actually gives Estate Agents very clear guidance on this (see the bit in bold)...

National Trading Standards Estate and Lettings Agency Team

Material Information in Property Listings
(Sales)
Guidance for Estate Agents
November 2023

2. Number and type(s) of room(s)

NTSELAT’s view is that the numbers and types of room are always considered

material information for every property listing.

A listing should include an accurate description or statement as to the number and type(s) of

each room in the property.

...

...

Rooms should not be listed as “bedrooms” if they have not met building regulations to be

considered as such. Where unsure, building regulations and planning documents should be

checked, or advice sought from the local council. 

Link: https://www.nationaltradingstandards.uk/uploads/Material Information in Property Listings (Sales) v1.0.pdf

And here's 2 examples of Estate Agents who had to pay compensation for describing rooms without Building Regs as bedrooms...

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/30220-2/

https://thenegotiator.co.uk/misleading-information-about-an-extension-that-didnt-meet-building-regulations/





Edit to add...

In my opinion, Trading Standards are going too far with this.

But I guess some Estate Agents will want to stick to the letter of the guidance... especially if they have been 'caught' in the past, and instructed to pay compensation.

BiB - You’re missing my point. The suggestion seemed to be that the agents would choose whether to market it as a 2 bed - which currently it is - or a three bed. But if the agent was in favour of the latter, the seller can veto and say that it’s to be marketed as a 2 bed. Certainly a seller can’t tell an agent to market a property as something it is not - but equally, if an agent is wanting to do so, then the person instructing can without question say no. 

The standard approach taken by agents on this is usually that they market as a 2 bed “with additional loft room” or “with fully accessible and insulated loft space” without actually saying that loft space is useable as a 3rd bedroom.

Grumpy_chap

Khaderbhai said:

Yes ideally, test the smoke alarms regularly but get your point. How many people actually know there house inside out though once a bedroom has been signed off? If you’re not a ‘tradey’ would you know if you had a fire door or if it was just installed to get building regs sign off and then removed at a later date to a non-fire door for example, how often do people get smoke alarms tested once they are signed off, probably never?!

Probably quite a few have the fire alarms properly tested to a proper schedule.

For our loft conversion to get Building Control sign off, we had to have a mains powered fire alarm with remote monitoring / dial out to the Fire Brigade.  
Our home insurance requires that the system is serviced annually.