Electric mini

WellKnownSid

The EV database can give you some useful real-world ranges:
https://ev-database.org/uk/car/1409/Mini-Electric

As with all things Your Mileage May Vary...

What is the longest trip you have actually done in the car to come to the '62 miles' conclusion?

537 miles in six months though suggests very low car usage.  In cold weather, very short trips e.g. a couple of miles in traffic the battery will still be cold and not running efficiently.  Further, if you're relying on the GOM (Guess-O-Meter) to tell you the range, then that may mislead you.

In 'theory' our car should do 180-200 miles real-world in Winter.  According to the Guess-O-Meter, I will see 130 miles of range on a full charge in very cold weather.  Yet after 125 miles of A-roads and 50% motorway at 70 (which is the speed limit by the way... diesel drivers take note...) it'll show I still have 80-odd miles left - so 205 miles which is bang-on expected real-world driving.

WellKnownSid

MikeJXE said:
Lol I have never considered an EV and will stick with my 2016 Jaguar XE auto deisel.

I bring terrible news...

https://uk.motor1.com/news/711878/jaguar-prepares-ev-only-production/

Goudy

Petriix said:

 It may simply be the case that you've bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. 

I know I stand a good chance of stirring up the old EV debate, but bare with me a minute.

I can't for the life of me understand why this particular make/model is actually a viable vehicle.

It has a claimed "Official Fuel Consumption (combined)" of 140 miles.

I presume to get this figure no one is going to argue that the testers didn't have to jump through a few hoops to get there.
Things like no heating or climate control, an average 28.8 mph, in summer and so on.

It seems to be common knowledge most drivers won't be able to replicate the temperature conditions, so the 2/3rds calculation is applied.
So now we're at 105 miles at best. (but you won't do that as no one flattens their battery on purpose)
Turn on the heating/climate control to demist and warm the passengers, is it really a surprise the range drops to 62?


Now there has been a comment that the driver isn't driving it long/far enough so the battery and heating can be more efficient.
But how do they do this if it's only giving a range of 62 miles?

It's not giving enough range to get into this reported "sweet spot" for long enough to make a difference to the actual range.

The example used was that of driving the first few miles at 2.0kWh, then the next few at 3.0kWh and so on until after 20 or so they get 4.0 kWh per mile.

To get to that efficient "sweet spot", this make/model would have to travel around 50% of it's report range first to get there.
No one is prepared to purposely run a battery that flat, so it's probably more likely it would be ran far less than the remaining 50% of it's reported range in this sweet spot, perhaps only 25 to 30% in it's sweet spot before it's back on charge.
That's pretty short no.

So likely it's only operating like this for 15 to 18 miles per charge and that would be if it was on one trip.
Break it into two trips or more and each would start the process again making the sweet spot mileage smaller and smaller.
If 15 to 18 miles in the sweet spot don't make a difference to the range, less isn't either.
But aren't we told EV's are perfect for these small hop trips?
 
It's no wonder the range isn't improving, it just can't due to the original range being so low to start with, it's never really likely to run long enough to get any better.

Now going back to being a viable vehicle, these start at over £32k for what?
Even if the range improves a faction in the warmer months, that is a lot of money to go not very far and if you aren't going very far, it's not really as efficient as you were lead to believe, even when you factor in the discrepancies of the WTLP tests and winter.
It's inherently less efficient until it's done enough miles to "warm up" which it can't as it's range was so low to start with.

BTW, I am not anti EV, I now drive one, some of the time.

OK I didn't buy it myself, it's a short term work lease but after the last 8 weeks or so, I am now starting to understand them far better than before and I actually agree with the example of them running more efficiently as they "warm up" over 8 to 10 miles.
Trouble is, no matter how long I drive like this, I cannot get the range to improve, it's the same as it was on day one at 100% charged, it's just it's equilibrium. 

I take it the bigger the battery, the higher this equilibrium would likely be.
 

born_again

henry24 said:

Ectophile said:

And diesels don't use more fuel when driven at high speeds?  Wind resistance is proportional to speed cubed, whatever the vehicle.

But when you have an engine that's maybe 40 to 45% efficient, with most of the energy being dumped as waste heat, you will notice it less.

They might use more fuel but I live near the humber bridge and I know I could drive to Edinburgh and most of the way back without worrying about diesel fuel could you do it with electric 

Your trip 524 there & back. Which you say you need to stop & fill up again to get home.

The below trip 478 miles with one stop just like yours... Which is a lot more M/Way & he does not drive slow either..

https://youtu.be/X5bFUMGEN48?si=6C_Sw_xfayzSFWxJ

Herzlos

Goudy said:

Petriix said:

 It may simply be the case that you've bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. 

I know I stand a good chance of stirring up the old EV debate, but bare with me a minute.

I can't for the life of me understand why this particular make/model is actually a viable vehicle.

It's not for everyone, sure, but I dare say even a 62 mile range is actually plenty for a lot of people. Going further and generalising a bit due to the people I know with Mini's, they are less likely to fall into the category of needing huge range. It's not a massively practical car to begin with.

Why pay a lot more in terms of purchase, weight, handling and economy to get 200 miles out of a car when the owner only does 40 mile round trips.

Tucosalamanca

Herzlos said:

Goudy said:

Petriix said:

 It may simply be the case that you've bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. 

I know I stand a good chance of stirring up the old EV debate, but bare with me a minute.

I can't for the life of me understand why this particular make/model is actually a viable vehicle.

It's not for everyone, sure, but I dare say even a 62 mile range is actually plenty for a lot of people. Going further and generalising a bit due to the people I know with Mini's, they are less likely to fall into the category of needing huge range. It's not a massively practical car to begin with.

Why pay a lot more in terms of purchase, weight, handling and economy to get 200 miles out of a car when the owner only does 40 mile round trips.

This is what keeps me interested in some of the cheaper/smaller EV.

We've got several ICE vehicles, an EV with 62 mile range would be a useful replacement / addition to our household, where the majority of round trips are probably 40 miles or less.

henry24

born_again said:

Your trip 524 there & back. Which you say you need to stop & fill up again to get home.

The below trip 478 miles with one stop just like yours... Which is a lot more M/Way & he does not drive slow either..

https://youtu.be/X5bFUMGEN48?si=6C_Sw_xfayzSFWxJ

My car has a 2.2L engine and it cost me £22000 new 3 years ago that car costs £53000 could you show me a electric car doing the same mileage for £22000

Goudy

Herzlos said:

Goudy said:

Petriix said:

 It may simply be the case that you've bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. 

I know I stand a good chance of stirring up the old EV debate, but bare with me a minute.

I can't for the life of me understand why this particular make/model is actually a viable vehicle.

Why pay a lot more in terms of purchase, weight, handling and economy to get 200 miles out of a car when the owner only does 40 mile round trips.

Or you could pay roughly the same and go three or four times as far.
I'm getting a steady 180 miles out of the Zoe.

But that's not the point of this thread, the OP has bought a Mini in the mistaken hope it goes further than 62 miles with some cabin heat.

We've had reasons for this as not driving it far enough to get really efficient, which due to the range they obviously can't but I understand the logic.

And we know a Tesla will do 478 on one charge, though I suspect it's two or three charges.
One before, one during (and one after, otherwise it goes nowhere). Not sure how that helps.

The problem seems to be, even though they don't want to hammer up and down the motorways, claim and reality are just too far apart to make this model viable to all but very very tiny numbers and they aren't in that demographic.

It would be surprising to hear other EV owners opinion, would 62 miles cut it for you after spending over £32k, really?

Claim was 140, expected reality was somewhere around 110, actual is 62.
That's a 55% difference and I don't think many EV owners would find that acceptable, even if they were only hopping 40 miles or so at a time.

I'm getting a 24% difference and still feel a cheated and I haven't paid a penny for this car.
I'm sure if you would have paid over £32k you'd feel more than a little cheated.

Mildly_Miffed

Goudy said:

Petriix said:

 It may simply be the case that you've bought the wrong vehicle for your needs. 

I know I stand a good chance of stirring up the old EV debate, but bare with me a minute.

I can't for the life of me understand why this particular make/model is actually a viable vehicle.

It has a claimed "Official Fuel Consumption (combined)" of 140 miles.

I presume to get this figure no one is going to argue that the testers didn't have to jump through a few hoops to get there.
Things like no heating or climate control, an average 28.8 mph, in summer and so on.

No, it's based on exactly the same standardised WLTP test profile as has been used for the official fuel economy and emissions figures for petrol and diesel cars since 2017.

https://www.wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

Ectophile

It would be surprising to hear other EV owners opinion, would 62 miles cut it for you after spending over £32k, really?

The Zoe has (or had - they are being discontinued) a list price of £31k and a WLTP range of 235 miles.  That's the main reason I bought one.  Other manufacturers seem to believe that nobody ever drives small cars long distances.

I know mine will do about 200 miles when I get out onto the open road, and that may increase when summer comes round.

I would also say, don't buy a new EV.  Buy a nearly new one.  The depreciation in the first year is massive.  Let somebody else take the hit.