Drainage & Water Search - Incorrect Map

rainmaker1990

We are buying a house that was built in 1972 and was extended in 1995. There is large front, side and rear garden to the property. Since this house is in end of cul-de-sac, the public surface sewer from the cul-de--sac connects to  sewer mains which is in located in the common walkway beside the property. 


1. 1972 title plan of the property shows that three gullies are connected to the catchpit located on the corner of the front garden and connects to the other sewer mains through a straight line cutting through the boundary fence. (Blue colored box is for 1995 extension)



  2. However, the drainage and water search map, incorrectly pointed the catchpit in front of the main door of the property , looking like the the sewer connection is all the way through the property. 




3. Then I got the CCTV survey done. CCTV survey confirmed the location of catchpit in line with the 1972 plan. 






Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

Grumpy_chap

That graphic you have included at item (2) appears to have been taken from GIS which is used by the Water Companies to record and trace the "general" location of assets.  It is often inaccurate in terms of the fine detail / positioning of assets, but is sufficient that the sewer "should" be able to be located as and when the need arises.  When a discrepancy is uncovered by the Water Company, correct co-ordinates are "supposed" to be taken and uploaded into the system - that often does not happen.

That appears to be the surface water sewer in light blue that you have shown in the incorrect location.  That is likely not a Thames Water asset but in the ownership of the local authority.

This should not affect the sell-ability of the house.  What is shown on a map does not alter what is actually in place on the ground.  You have CCTV to evidence what is actually in place on the ground.

Section62

rainmaker1990 said:

Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

I'd say it was the typical kind of inaccuracy I'd expect to see on this type of plan.

The reason is because little of the public sewerage network has ever been properly mapped.  The way the records have come into being varies, but typically the information was originally collected by local councils (who were previously responsible for sewers) and drawn by hand on paper or film copies of 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS plans.  These plans had to be maintained and made available for public inspection.

When computerised record keeping started, the old paper/film plans were simply digitised.  This wasn't a particularly accurate way of capturing data from not particularly accurate plans.  When we used these plans we worked on the basis the manhole was somewhere near the indicated position, but kept an open mind as to how far away it may eventually be found.

I would expect the key for the extract TW have supplied would have a note saying the positions are approximate and need to be checked on site.  I'd also expect a solicitor to be familiar with the generally imprecise nature of these plans, and that a proper sewer/CCTV survey should be seen as more reliable.  Hopefully the solicitor won't spook the lender by raising this as a (non) issue.

You may be able to get TW to update their records based on the survey you've had done.

rainmaker1990

Section62 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

I'd say it was the typical kind of inaccuracy I'd expect to see on this type of plan.

The reason is because little of the public sewerage network has ever been properly mapped.  The way the records have come into being varies, but typically the information was originally collected by local councils (who were previously responsible for sewers) and drawn by hand on paper or film copies of 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS plans.  These plans had to be maintained and made available for public inspection.

When computerised record keeping started, the old paper/film plans were simply digitised.  This wasn't a particularly accurate way of capturing data from not particularly accurate plans.  When we used these plans we worked on the basis the manhole was somewhere near the indicated position, but kept an open mind as to how far away it may eventually be found.

I would expect the key for the extract TW have supplied would have a note saying the positions are approximate and need to be checked on site.  I'd also expect a solicitor to be familiar with the generally imprecise nature of these plans, and that a proper sewer/CCTV survey should be seen as more reliable.  Hopefully the solicitor won't spook the lender by raising this as a (non) issue.

You may be able to get TW to update their records based on the survey you've had done.

yes. Thamewater report does have a disclaimer saying that these maps are for guidance  but not a accurate representation of the sewer lines. Solicitor is convinced that map is inaccurate, but she says we have to tell the lender that TW map is inaccurate and that according to her is obligation for them to do so.  

user1977

rainmaker1990 said:

Section62 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

I'd say it was the typical kind of inaccuracy I'd expect to see on this type of plan.

The reason is because little of the public sewerage network has ever been properly mapped.  The way the records have come into being varies, but typically the information was originally collected by local councils (who were previously responsible for sewers) and drawn by hand on paper or film copies of 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS plans.  These plans had to be maintained and made available for public inspection.

When computerised record keeping started, the old paper/film plans were simply digitised.  This wasn't a particularly accurate way of capturing data from not particularly accurate plans.  When we used these plans we worked on the basis the manhole was somewhere near the indicated position, but kept an open mind as to how far away it may eventually be found.

I would expect the key for the extract TW have supplied would have a note saying the positions are approximate and need to be checked on site.  I'd also expect a solicitor to be familiar with the generally imprecise nature of these plans, and that a proper sewer/CCTV survey should be seen as more reliable.  Hopefully the solicitor won't spook the lender by raising this as a (non) issue.

You may be able to get TW to update their records based on the survey you've had done.

Solicitor is convinced that map is inaccurate, but she says we have to tell the lender that TW map is inaccurate and that according to her is obligation for them to do so.  

Solicitor is being a bit overly-pedantic but probably too late to do anything about that now.

I'm not aware of any lender which actually says you need to check the routes of pipes, and as above it would be rather pointless to do so by relying on such searches given they're often inaccurate.

Hoenir

user1977 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Section62 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

I'd say it was the typical kind of inaccuracy I'd expect to see on this type of plan.

The reason is because little of the public sewerage network has ever been properly mapped.  The way the records have come into being varies, but typically the information was originally collected by local councils (who were previously responsible for sewers) and drawn by hand on paper or film copies of 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS plans.  These plans had to be maintained and made available for public inspection.

When computerised record keeping started, the old paper/film plans were simply digitised.  This wasn't a particularly accurate way of capturing data from not particularly accurate plans.  When we used these plans we worked on the basis the manhole was somewhere near the indicated position, but kept an open mind as to how far away it may eventually be found.

I would expect the key for the extract TW have supplied would have a note saying the positions are approximate and need to be checked on site.  I'd also expect a solicitor to be familiar with the generally imprecise nature of these plans, and that a proper sewer/CCTV survey should be seen as more reliable.  Hopefully the solicitor won't spook the lender by raising this as a (non) issue.

You may be able to get TW to update their records based on the survey you've had done.

Solicitor is convinced that map is inaccurate, but she says we have to tell the lender that TW map is inaccurate and that according to her is obligation for them to do so.  

Solicitor is being a bit overly-pedantic but probably too late to do anything about that now.

.

As the solicitor is also engaged by the lender they are duty bound to notify them of any material facts that come to light during the conveyancing process. My solicitor is a widely misconstrued term. . 

user1977

Hoenir said:

user1977 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Section62 said:

rainmaker1990 said:

Solicitor has sent all of this information to the lender and mentioned that thameswater seems to be inaccurate. I am just worried about the actual truth and potential sell-ability of the house.

Have you faced any such situations in the past ? 

I'd say it was the typical kind of inaccuracy I'd expect to see on this type of plan.

The reason is because little of the public sewerage network has ever been properly mapped.  The way the records have come into being varies, but typically the information was originally collected by local councils (who were previously responsible for sewers) and drawn by hand on paper or film copies of 1:1250 or 1:2500 OS plans.  These plans had to be maintained and made available for public inspection.

When computerised record keeping started, the old paper/film plans were simply digitised.  This wasn't a particularly accurate way of capturing data from not particularly accurate plans.  When we used these plans we worked on the basis the manhole was somewhere near the indicated position, but kept an open mind as to how far away it may eventually be found.

I would expect the key for the extract TW have supplied would have a note saying the positions are approximate and need to be checked on site.  I'd also expect a solicitor to be familiar with the generally imprecise nature of these plans, and that a proper sewer/CCTV survey should be seen as more reliable.  Hopefully the solicitor won't spook the lender by raising this as a (non) issue.

You may be able to get TW to update their records based on the survey you've had done.

Solicitor is convinced that map is inaccurate, but she says we have to tell the lender that TW map is inaccurate and that according to her is obligation for them to do so.  

Solicitor is being a bit overly-pedantic but probably too late to do anything about that now.

As the solicitor is also engaged by the lender they are duty bound to notify them of any material facts that come to light during the conveyancing process. My solicitor is a widely misconstrued term. . 

I know that, but I would query the materiality of this sort of thing...

rainmaker1990

Lender has come back and informed that they are okay to proceed , however, they are still insisting on Indemnity Insurance from seller as a way to protect their interests. My solicitor has written to them for the same and exchange will be only after that 

user1977

Indemnity against the pipe being somewhere other than where it actually has been verified to lie? Oh well...