Ideal boiler safety notice - going up in flames!

MatB

I had a new Ideal Logic+ Combi 2 C30 boiler installed at the start of January 2024 due to an unrepairable leak in my existing one over Christmas. In early February Ideal wrote to me to indicate there was a problem with the new boiler. Wonderful.

They seemed to play it down in their safety notice: "it could cause the boiler to overheat and fail." and indicated I needed to regularly check the pressure, top it up and bleed the radiators. The Government safety notice makes it somewhat clearer: "subject to significant heat allowing the plastic to flash to flame and result in fire outside of the appliance." I've tonight seen a rather worrying video showing one of these boilers up in flames. Okay, so I really should probably check it every couple of days then.

They offered me a repair appointment yesterday for about a months time, but weren't able to offer a specific time just the whole day (8am-6pm). This isn't particularly convenient as I need to travel to work and can't plan around hanging around waiting for them all day. It took less time to have the thing installed - a couple of hours slot. I spent an hour on the phone trying to encourage them to come up with a better idea and am waiting for a call back from the third level of management. Not holding out any hope. They seem less than ideally organised for this.

Now having seen the disastrous video above, I've lost all faith in the boiler and Ideal as a company. They're clearly trying to cover their !!!!!! by mentioning a 'failure' risk rather than a fire risk, even when pressed on the phone. If I couldn't be around for their definition of an appointment for repair they were happy to just 'make a note on the file' and leave it at that. That's not clever in such a safety situation and seems to show their extremely poor corporate attitude to the situation they've got themselves into. I'm now of the opinion I need the thing removing and replacing with something from a reputable company I can trust.

I'm a bit lost as to my consumer rights for this as it's not as simple as taking the product back as it's fitted to the wall. My contract is obviously with my installer, and Ideal seem unwilling to want to get involved. But I can't see it going well with the self-employed installer either. They didn't seem very keen when I suggested I have it removed and replaced at their cost.

Have I accepted the boiler by using it for a month unbeknown of the issue? The install was 4 Jan, the safety notice 1 Feb. Less than a month before finding out there was a problem, but the lies at the that point didn't cover the reality of the situation.

It seems they've screwed up the design on something like 25,000 of these '2' models made since Aug 2022, so it's taking them some time to get them all repaired. I get the impression, the fix is a bit of a bodge job. It doesn't fix the problem, it just turns the boiler off before it catches fire (no bad thing, but not a fix). I'm not impressed.

Sadly I paid the invoice by bank transfer (after the fact) rathe than by credit card.

silvercar

“ They offered me a repair appointment yesterday for about a months time, but weren't able to offer a specific time just the whole day (8am-6pm). This isn't particularly convenient as I need to travel to work and can't plan around hanging around waiting for them all day. It took less time to have the thing installed - a couple of hours slot. I spent an hour on the phone trying to encourage them to come up with a better idea and am waiting for a call back from the third level of management. Not holding out any hope. They seem less than ideally organised for this.”

I’d be more concerned that it is taking a month to get to you, though they do have a lot of boilers to attend.

Often an all day appointment firms up to a couple of hours that you are notified of the day before. Makes sense for them as they can plan their route once they know all the jobs for the day. 

Your call, but a fire risk being sorted would be higher in my priorities than having an exact time slot a month ahead.

—-

Reading back what I’ve written, I’ve missed the main point of no confidence in the brand. What does your installer say? Could he have been reasonably aware of the faults with this brand? One option would be to get the boiler replaced at your cost and go to court for the costs back, but I’m not sure you would win. If the installer can show he wasn’t aware of the safety issue at the point of instal, it isn’t really his fault. I doubt Ideal would replace with another brand, do they have a safer model? 

silvercar

https://idealheating.com/blog/important-customer-safety-notice?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA0bWvBhBjEiwAtEsoW11ZH9oGATFobUBhekwEaQuc7knvA4AfHbBHmJGy4QLIIIv13_Q-EBoCfpUQAvD_BwE

link to safety notice, effecting 1 in 10,000 of Ideal boilers.

Keep_pedalling

I don’t see that the mod is a bodge job, and unless your heating system has a major leek the chances of your boiler going into dry mode are zero, so as long as you are keeping an eye on the pressure you will be fine.

You are not entitled to a replacement boiler.

jefaz07

It doesn’t affect many, and I agree it doesn’t look good. I’m doing all the safety upgrades myself as I don’t have a lot. Ideal are paying me to do it. 

outtatune

Realistically, what is the alternative? Even if you decided you wanted no more to do with Ideal and opted to have it replaced by a different brand, are you really going to be able to get a reputable gas engineer to give you an appointment sooner than next month?

MatB

silvercar said:

I’d be more concerned that it is taking a month to get to you, though they do have a lot of boilers to attend.

Your call, but a fire risk being sorted would be higher in my priorities than having an exact time slot a month ahead.

Haven't spoken to my installer yet, it being Sunday. Ideal don't expect to send out repair kits to local installers until w/c 18th March. They're clearly on the back foot. Not sure I can do much other than turn the boiler off in the meantime. I'm only using it manually at the moment, no timer. The water pre-heat is also off. Alongside checking the pressure regularly, I think that mitigates almost all of the risk.

Often an all day appointment firms up to a couple of hours that you are notified of the day before. Makes sense for them as they can plan their route once they know all the jobs for the day. 

They're planning to call on the day between 8am and 9am. But they're also planning to arrive sometime between 8am and 6pm, which doesn't add up 🤷. At best I'll be on the way to work. At worst I'll be in work incommunicado. I may be able to start late and wait for a call to negotiate a slot, but trying to sort this out on the day is less than ideal.

Reading back what I’ve written, I’ve missed the main point of no confidence in the brand. What does your installer say? Could he have been reasonably aware of the faults with this brand? One option would be to get the boiler replaced at your cost and go to court for the costs back, but I’m not sure you would win. If the installer can show he wasn’t aware of the safety issue at the point of instal, it isn’t really his fault. I doubt Ideal would replace with another brand, do they have a safer model?

It's not at all the installer's fault, but my contract is with them not Ideal. And Ideal seem to be washing their hands of it when I suggest they need to remove and replace at their cost. I wouldn't expect the installer to be out of pocket, but I think if I sue them, they'll just have to sue Ideal to recoup their costs, unless Ideal change their tune and do the right thing.

Ideal didn't have a great reputation in the past, but it was what the expert recommended so I went with it assuming they'd improved. This latest debacle doesn't bode well for their future reputation.

The fault covers boilers manufactured up to 7th Jan 2024. Mine was installed 4th Jan. The safety notice wasn't announced until 1 Feb. Ideal must have known about it 7th, which was after my install but still a few weeks until they fessed up.

The issue seems to affect all Ideal '2' boilers. For remediation, I'd expect Ideal to cover the cost of original installation and now subsequent removal of their broken boiler. Then I can start again with installation of a replacement Vaillant which worked well for me for 15+ years. I imagine it'll cost a tad more, but at least I can trust a Vaillant not to catch fire.

silvercar said:

https://idealheating.com/blog/important-customer-safety-notice?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA0bWvBhBjEiwAtEsoW11ZH9oGATFobUBhekwEaQuc7knvA4AfHbBHmJGy4QLIIIv13_Q-EBoCfpUQAvD_BwE

link to safety notice, effecting 1 in 10,000 of Ideal boilers.

Like the rest of the safety notice, this seems to be very craftily worded:

In a small proportion of the affected range of boilers (approximately 1 in 10,000), if an excessive volume of air has become trapped inside the boiler in a fault condition, it could cause the boiler to overheat and fail. 

They've seen it happen with 1 in 10,000 boilers. As in 1 in 10,000 have ended up with air in the wrong place. And 'failed'. But if you read the trading standards notice, 100% of those affected have then gone up in flames:

The product presents a risk of fire due to the dry operation, meaning the boiler lights gas but the heat generated does not cool it. There have been three incidents of boilers that have been able to continue to operate when the boiler heat exchanger has been full of air at a low pressure. This has allowed the heat exchanger and associated plastic components to be subject to significant heat allowing the plastic to flash to flame and result in fire outside of the appliance. There has also been a report of a customer having to extinguish flames.

This kind of bending the truth (including on the phone) is why I've completely lost faith in Ideal.

Keep_pedalling said:

I don’t see that the mod is a bodge job, and unless your heating system has a major leek the chances of your boiler going into dry mode are zero, so as long as you are keeping an eye on the pressure you will be fine.

Their 'fix' is to add a temperature cut-out. This is fixing the problem by detecting the overheat after it happens rather than preventing the situation in the first place. Crap engineering.

outtatune said:

Realistically, what is the alternative? Even if you decided you wanted no more to do with Ideal and opted to have it replaced by a different brand, are you really going to be able to get a reputable gas engineer to give you an appointment sooner than next month?

I had the previous leaking one replaced in less than a week, with a specific time and done in a couple of hours. I certainly reckon I could get this one swapped out quicker than a month.

rob7475

MatB said:

The fault covers boilers manufactured up to 7th Jan 2024. Mine was installed 4th Jan. The safety notice wasn't announced until 1 Feb. Ideal must have known about it 7th, which was after my install but still a few weeks until they fessed up.

The issue seems to affect all Ideal '2' boilers. For remediation, I'd expect Ideal to cover the cost of original installation and now subsequent removal of their broken boiler. Then I can start again with installation of a replacement Vaillant which worked well for me for 15+ years. I imagine it'll cost a tad more, but at least I can trust a Vaillant not to catch fire.

I think you are being unrealistic expecting Ideal to remove the boiler and give you back the money it cost you for the installation.

They have identified the issue and found a resolution which they have offered you. As long as your central heating isn't leaking water, there's no reason for you to be concerned until they come out and fix the problem.

A full day timeslot for the repair isn't perfect but, if you are so worried about this issue, I think you will just have to accept it and ask them if they can give you a better idea of an ETA a couple of days before.