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Is it worth appealing or shall i just pay? "Private Parking Solutions (PPS)

Bonez14
Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
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Here is the response from 1st appeal.


Further to your appeal received regarding the above parking charge, I have now had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are below. Parking at 50-60 GREENHILL WAY, HARROW, HA1 1LE is only for the vehicles that are parked in accordance with the site instructions, as detailed on signage on site; the signage is clear, in excess of industry standards, stating: NO PARKING AT ANY TIME PRIVATE LAND, STRICTLY NO PARKING, WAITING OR LOADING AT ANY TIME UNAUTHORISED PARKING WILL RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE OF £100 BEING ISSUED The charge was issued because your vehicle was parked in an enforcement zone, a strictly no-parking area, directly contravening the advertised terms and conditions of parking on the signage. This is further supported by photographic evidence from the warden, showing the vehicle parked contrary to the car park's terms, with visible notices indicating no parking in the area. Please be advised that the signs do not need to be visible from every space on the site, they only need to be placed throughout the site so that the motorist has the opportunity to read the terms and conditions. Whether you read the terms and conditions is irrelevant, you were afforded a reasonable opportunity to read them. The signage explicitly states, 'strictly no parking, waiting, or loading at any time.' These signs are clearly positioned and readable to ensure understanding of the terms and conditions. According to the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice, instead of road markings, the operator must provide clear signage at the site outlining the terms and conditions. The images show your vehicle parked near warning signs, indicating your awareness of the terms and conditions. The terms were adequately brought to your attention and if you decide to remain on site and do not review the full terms and conditions of parking, we cannot be held responsible for a breach of the parking contract. It's important to note that when a vehicle halts for the purpose of stopping, parking, or waiting, it's considered parked, regardless of whether the engine is on or the vehicle is not parked within a bay. This implies acceptance of the site's terms and conditions.

In relation to your Blue badge please note that the Department of Transport has issued guidance about the Blue Badge Scheme and the restrictions in place. It states “The Blue Badge is not a licence to park anywhere. You must always check signs to see what the rules are when parking…” The disabled badge handbook will also inform the driver/or carers that when parking on private land the restrictions displayed will apply. The disabled badge will only offer free or extended parking on local authority land. The use of a blue badge alone is not sufficient to exempt parking in a no parking zone. Considering the aforementioned reasons, I conclude that the PCN was correctly issued. Therefore, I must refuse your appeal. Ultimately, it's the responsibility of the motorist to read and adhere to the signs and terms and conditions of the site. To avoid incurring further administration cost, please arrange your remittance of £60 within 14 days from the date above (we reset the clock). Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.00 if you pay within 28 days from the date above and to £160 once we pass the details of your case to debt Recovery Company. You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. You can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeal Service by completing appeal form online on http://www.popla.co.uk within 28 days. By law, we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above. You now have a number of options; 1. Pay the Parking Charge at the price of £60.00 within 14 days. 2. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies due via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. 3. If you disagree with the appeal decision you can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeal Service by completing appeal form online on http://www.popla.co.uk within 28 days. 4. You can pay or appeal – you cannot do both. Please, note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60.00, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. Please see further information related to your parking ticket on our website: www.paypps.co.uk How to pay your PCN: • Pay Online: www.paypps.co.uk • Pay by telephone: 24h payment line: 0844 304 0102 • Pay by Bank Transfer: Private Parking Solutions Sort Code: 30-84-76 Account Number: 37153460 Please, quote your Parking Charge Number as your reference when making your payment. Please see further information related to your parking ticket on our website: www.paypps.co.uk Mrs Robinson Process Officer.



It was a side road that led into a gated area. I saw no yellow line on left hand side of the road when reversing in. So i reversed  in to the spot, did not even see this private land sign board. And when i eventually did when i saw a car come out of the gated area i assumed it was warning for the gated area. The actual road i put my car on was not clear it is private road. It did not say no parking in front of gates etc. I did not get out of the car. I maybe sat in car for about 10 mins.
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Comments

  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,014 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 9 March at 12:20PM
    A number of points; you have received an invoice based on a commercial contract with a private parking company whose only interest is money.
    As they have correctly stated a blue badge has no actual meaning on private land.
    But of course you don't have to pay someone that just sends you an invoice out of the blue.
    Pity you didn't come here first before appealing.
    However there is plenty of help on here, private parking companies tell lies all the time and are bullies.
    They have stated for example that the signage is in excess of industry standards, if it is the place shown below and it still looks like this that is a lie written by someone that has probably never seen the site.
    They also state "NO PARKING AT ANY TIME PRIVATE LAND, STRICTLY NO PARKING, WAITING OR LOADING AT ANY TIME UNAUTHORISED PARKING WILL RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE OF £100 BEING ISSUED"
    As these charges are issued under contractual agreements and no offer to park was given there can be no charge, you were trespassing and a two bit parking company cannot issue a penalty for trespass.
    Was it here:
     

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    Bonez14 said:
    Here is the response from 1st appeal.


    Further to your appeal received regarding the above parking charge, I have now had the opportunity to review this case and my findings are below. Parking at 50-60 GREENHILL WAY, HARROW, HA1 1LE is only for the vehicles that are parked in accordance with the site instructions, as detailed on signage on site; the signage is clear, in excess of industry standards, stating: NO PARKING AT ANY TIME PRIVATE LAND, STRICTLY NO PARKING, WAITING OR LOADING AT ANY TIME UNAUTHORISED PARKING WILL RESULT IN A PARKING CHARGE NOTICE OF £100 BEING ISSUED The charge was issued because your vehicle was parked in an enforcement zone, a strictly no-parking area, directly contravening the advertised terms and conditions of parking on the signage. This is further supported by photographic evidence from the warden, showing the vehicle parked contrary to the car park's terms, with visible notices indicating no parking in the area. Please be advised that the signs do not need to be visible from every space on the site, they only need to be placed throughout the site so that the motorist has the opportunity to read the terms and conditions. Whether you read the terms and conditions is irrelevant, you were afforded a reasonable opportunity to read them. The signage explicitly states, 'strictly no parking, waiting, or loading at any time.' These signs are clearly positioned and readable to ensure understanding of the terms and conditions. According to the British Parking Association (BPA) code of practice, instead of road markings, the operator must provide clear signage at the site outlining the terms and conditions. The images show your vehicle parked near warning signs, indicating your awareness of the terms and conditions. The terms were adequately brought to your attention and if you decide to remain on site and do not review the full terms and conditions of parking, we cannot be held responsible for a breach of the parking contract. It's important to note that when a vehicle halts for the purpose of stopping, parking, or waiting, it's considered parked, regardless of whether the engine is on or the vehicle is not parked within a bay. This implies acceptance of the site's terms and conditions.

    In relation to your Blue badge please note that the Department of Transport has issued guidance about the Blue Badge Scheme and the restrictions in place. It states “The Blue Badge is not a licence to park anywhere. You must always check signs to see what the rules are when parking…” The disabled badge handbook will also inform the driver/or carers that when parking on private land the restrictions displayed will apply. The disabled badge will only offer free or extended parking on local authority land. The use of a blue badge alone is not sufficient to exempt parking in a no parking zone. Considering the aforementioned reasons, I conclude that the PCN was correctly issued. Therefore, I must refuse your appeal. Ultimately, it's the responsibility of the motorist to read and adhere to the signs and terms and conditions of the site. To avoid incurring further administration cost, please arrange your remittance of £60 within 14 days from the date above (we reset the clock). Please note that after this time the Parking Charge Notice will rise to £100.00 if you pay within 28 days from the date above and to £160 once we pass the details of your case to debt Recovery Company. You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. You can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeal Service by completing appeal form online on http://www.popla.co.uk within 28 days. By law, we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above. You now have a number of options; 1. Pay the Parking Charge at the price of £60.00 within 14 days. 2. If you choose to do nothing, we will seek to recover the monies due via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with Court action against you. 3. If you disagree with the appeal decision you can make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeal Service by completing appeal form online on http://www.popla.co.uk within 28 days. 4. You can pay or appeal – you cannot do both. Please, note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £60.00, and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount of £100.00. Please see further information related to your parking ticket on our website: www.paypps.co.uk How to pay your PCN: • Pay Online: www.paypps.co.uk • Pay by telephone: 24h payment line: 0844 304 0102 • Pay by Bank Transfer: Private Parking Solutions Sort Code: 30-84-76 Account Number: 37153460 Please, quote your Parking Charge Number as your reference when making your payment. Please see further information related to your parking ticket on our website: www.paypps.co.uk Mrs Robinson Process Officer.



    It was a side road that led into a gated area. I saw no yellow line on left hand side of the road when reversing in. So i reversed  in to the spot, did not even see this private land sign board. And when i eventually did when i saw a car come out of the gated area i assumed it was warning for the gated area. The actual road i put my car on was not clear it is private road. It did not say no parking in front of gates etc. I did not get out of the car. I maybe sat in car for about 10 mins.
    Why are you reading and reproducing (and setting such store by) their standard refusal, as if it means something?  Of course you don't pay a private parking charge.

    You need to read the NEWBIES thread.  :)
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Bonez14
    Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 9 March at 6:57PM
    What response shall i give to popla?

    I was parked under the trees. I reversed in  its not obvious that part is private land. Theres no yellow line and i thought it was free parking.

    I mentioned this when i appealed.

    @fisherjim yes it was there. Black car spot  closer to double yellow
  • fisherjim
    fisherjim Posts: 6,014 Forumite
    Photogenic First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    edited 9 March at 7:22PM
    Sorry but have you taken in anything you have been told?
    Have you read the newbies thread?
    Does the area still look like that screen grab from GSV 2021
    "I thought" is not a defence but if you prove that there were no signs to form a contact or prohibit you from parking that is.
    "I reversed in  its not obvious that part is private land because there is a total lack of signage, as per my dated photographs"....... is the type of evidence you need for POPLA mitigation or what happened on the day won't wash.
    You must remember also you are not dealing with John Lewis you are dealing with nasty scammers that twist and lie at every turn to get your money.

  • Bonez14
    Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post


    That is the original letter recieved
  • Bonez14
    Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 9 March at 7:51PM
    @fisherjim

    1. Are you saying to respond with to popla saying "they do not offer parking"?

    2. I have been reading newbies section. I came across this popla draft https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7ltb9rcr6zy7kn/Appeal_stage2_POPLA_ECP_draft5.pdf?e=1&dl=0 im not sure how much of this i can use. On the letter you can see the pictures are only seconds apart and no grace period shown. I cannot access the online appeal account anymore to see the other pictures.
    Shall i use parts of this draft for popla appeal?


    3. Yes it is the same location 

    4. Yes there was a sign on the right hand side of how i was parked. But i did not notice it untill i looked over my shoulder to leave. I cannot remember if there was one on the back wall
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,287 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    edited 10 March at 12:48AM
    Can you show us a sign picture?
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,533 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 9 March at 11:08PM
    @Bonez14, in most of your posts you admit to being the driver.
    Do the parking company know who was driving?
    Presumably you appealed as the vehicle's keeper.
  • Bonez14
    Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 10 March at 3:51PM
    I have take some pictures of the spot














    Here is close up




  • Bonez14
    Bonez14 Posts: 106 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Combo Breaker First Post
    edited 10 March at 3:58PM
    This was my appeal i sent in the online form


    "I am writing to challenge the parking charge notice referenced above, which I received concerning an alleged parking violation on [Date] at [Location]. I contest this charge on the following grounds:
    1. Unclear Signage and Labeling: Upon parking at the location, I observed that the signpost indicating private parking was not clearly labeled and was not prominently displayed in a manner visible from the position where my vehicle was parked. The lack of clear signage failed to adequately inform drivers of the private nature of the road and associated parking restrictions.

    2. Ambiguity of Road Status: There were no distinct markings or signage indicating whether the road was private or public. As a reasonable driver, I found the absence of clear indicators regarding the road's status concerning and misleading. The ambiguity regarding the road's status contributed to the confusion surrounding the parking regulations in the area.

    3. Absence of Yellow Lines: Notably, the side of the road where I parked lacked any yellow lines, which typically indicate parking restrictions. The absence of such markings led me to reasonably assume that parking was permitted in that area.

    4. Location of Sign: The private parking sign was positioned in front of a gated area of the road, leading to the assumption that parking restrictions applied only beyond that point. From the perspective of where my vehicle was parked, it was not evident that the sign applied to the area in question.

    5. Disability Consideration: I wish to bring to your attention my status as a registered disabled driver with a valid disability badge. I parked in good faith, believing it to be a fair place to wait temporarily due to the absence of parking restrictions indicated by yellow lines and the unclear nature of the road's private status.

    Based on the above points, I respectfully request that the parking charge notice be dismissed. The lack of clear signage, ambiguity regarding the road's private status, absence of yellow lines indicating parking restrictions, and my status as a registered disabled driver acting in good faith all contribute to the grounds for dismissal.

    I kindly request a prompt review of this matter and a response within the specified timeframe. Should you require any further information or clarification, please do not hesitate to contact me.

    Yours faithfully,

    [Your Full Name]"

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