PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING: Hello Forumites! In order to help keep the Forum a useful, safe and friendly place for our users, discussions around non-MoneySaving matters are not permitted per the Forum rules. While we understand that mentioning house prices may sometimes be relevant to a user's specific MoneySaving situation, we ask that you please avoid veering into broad, general debates about the market, the economy and politics, as these can unfortunately lead to abusive or hateful behaviour. Threads that are found to have derailed into wider discussions may be removed. Users who repeatedly disregard this may have their Forum account banned. Please also avoid posting personally identifiable information, including links to your own online property listing which may reveal your address. Thank you for your understanding.
We're aware that some users are experiencing technical issues which the team are working to resolve. See the Community Noticeboard for more info. Thank you for your patience.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Transfer of ownership of a small piece of garden land to a neighbour

Options
1235789

Comments

  • YoungBlueEyes
    YoungBlueEyes Posts: 4,875 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Homepage Hero Photogenic
    edited 10 March 2024 at 9:26AM
    I am not a lawyer. 

    This seems to be the same situation as when you're house hunting and you shell out money for searches/surveyors/etc checking a house you don't ultimately buy. Your neighbour is racking up costs for land he won't/can't ultimately buy, but he'll have bills for the professionals' time and expertise he's used. Imo. 

    OP did you say he thought he owned the land...? In which case I would be checking planning in case he's started something, believing that he owns it. This is a long time and a lot of bother for someone who just wants a wee bit longer garden... 

    If you've gone off the idea entirely I'd let him know that. I'd go round and explain that yous obviously aren't on the same page and you won't be selling. 

    Edit - but if he slams the door in your face or starts being pi$$y with you, I'd let him write his letters and wrack up a solicitor bill. That's karma, you see :naughty: 
    I removed the shell from my racing snail, but now it's more sluggish than ever.
  • eddddy
    eddddy Posts: 17,985 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 10 March 2024 at 9:15AM
    Nellie67 said:

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? 





    They would need a legal basis for suing you in court - such as 'breach of contract' or 'negligence'.

    So if you had done something like exchanged contracts for the sale, and now refused to complete, that would be breach of contract.

    Or if you said you'd pay half the surveyor's bill but haven't, that would breach of contract. (They could take you to court to claim half the surveyor's bill.)


    But based on what you've said, you haven't entered into a contract to sell the land, or to do anything else.

    So the best plan might be to wait to see if they send a 'Letter before action' followed by court documents which explain the supposed 'breach of contract' or specify another basis for a claim, then decide what to do. I doubt anything will arrive. 

  • aliby21
    aliby21 Posts: 327 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 10 March 2024 at 9:46AM
    Good grief, is your neighbour actually using a bona fide solicitor? or is this just a mate from down the pub with a GCSE in law? or something he has concocted himself from professor google?

    My understanding ( and I am not a solicitor!) is that 'without prejudice save as to costs' only comes into play AFTER a judge has ruled on a dispute and found in your neighbour's favour, and that you rejected a negotiated offer of that amount the judge awarded.  So your neighbour would have to take you to court claiming that in law you have to sell your land to him/her, and the judge would then have to rule that in law you have to sell it to him/her for £5000 or less, only then might you become liable for his/her costs.  

    I think you have two options:
    1 ignore anything further from him/her
    2 instruct your own solicitor to just write him a letter telling him/her to do one.  Check your home insurance, or ring round some local firms to get an estimate, but I would think you should find a proper solicitor who would do this for a few hundred quid. Seeing that you have taken your own legal advice might just be enough to make him/her shut up for good. 
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,935 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 10 March 2024 at 1:25PM
    Nellie67 said:
    This is the text from the latest solicitor letter: 
    Respectfully, the land that is the subject of this dispute has no prospect of being developed or being put to any significant use being, as it is, only a narrow strip of land behind a garden shed. It, therefore, has no inherent market value and certainly not to the degree you propose.
    Further, my clients have spent considerable sums in trying to resolve this dispute, which
    they feel has dragged on for far too long and waiving their opportunity to recover their legal costs from you, which they would be entitled to do, is a significant gesture. My clients continue to accrue costs as a consequence of this unnecessarily protracted correspondence.
    It was clearly stated in my clients’ offer of 23 February 2024 that there was no scenario where they would pay more than the £5,000 being offered and this was their final offer. My clients were making a genuine offer that is in excess of the real value of the land and were surprised that you rejected it.
    In the event that court proceedings are required, there is no circumstance where you would be awarded such a cash sum as my clients are currently offering. Furthermore, irrespective of where the judge determines the boundary to lie, there are costs implications for both parties, as costs awards do not cover 100% of any one party’s costs.
    The legal costs for a fully contested hearing will be in the tens of thousands of pounds. As such the differential for you is between a £5,000 cash sum payable upon registration of the boundary agreement or the costs arising from court proceedings. From my clients’ side, there is little difference for them between paying you or paying for a court process, although the cash option resolves the situation more quickly, as per the wishes of both parties.

    My clients see no benefit of incurring further legal costs through negotiation by
    correspondence, which is clearly not progressing matters, and they have stated this on a number of occasions previously. Their £5,000 offer, with each party bearing their own costs, as set out in our letter dated 23 February 2024, remains open for a further 7-days. At this time the offer will be withdrawn and court proceedings shall be issued, without further notice
    to yourself.
    Nellie, we don't have sight of all the correspondence between you and them. From what we have seen, it would appear that this neighbour has been 'trying it on' for a good while, first by claiming the land is theirs, and then by their clumsy attempts at purchase - coupled with help from their dodgy solicitor.
    I say they are 'dodgy', although to be clear, I am a legal layman, so don't know if what they are doing is permitted or 'normal'. But it seems incredibly unethical at best - they appear to be saying things that they must know are just not true! For instance, in the second paragraph of their letter above, they state their clients have - in a 'significant gesture' - kindly waived their right to claim legal costs from you, 'which they would be entitled to do'. Little couching of words there - they would be entitled to? What does 'would be' mean?! That they ARE entitled to, or that they WOULD BE, in other circumstances, but not necessarily this one? Nasty manipulative stuff.
    In your back and forth correspondence, have you said or implied anything that they could unscrupulously interpret as being an 'instruction' for them to proceed. Eg, if they said "we will pursue all our legal options", and you replied "go on then - fill yer boots!", could they 'use' this?! I have no idea! :smile:  Or, when the neighbour said they'd get a land survey done, did they add anything like, "... but it'll cost us both", and you replied "Whatevs..."? Even so, I find it very hard to see that they have any claim whatsoever, so I find the solicitor's language quite concerning.
    Then, in their last sentence, they state that they SHALL issue court proceedings. Not 'may', or 'option to', but 'shall'. Not a threat - a statement of actual intent. Which I do not believe.
    DO YOU HAVE LEGAL PROTECTION INCLUDED IN YOUR HOUSE INSURANCE?!
    Yes, the behaviour of this neighbour and solicitor would, and should, have most folk citing Arkell-Press (do you know what the posters mean by this? :smile: ), but obviously you are made of more polite stuff. I would not worry about their threat, and I'd probably just cease all correspondence too, unless it's an actual 'letter before action', or court summons' (actually, personally, I think I'd do what another poster suggested, and keep replies - in the form of clarifying questions - trickling forward to wind them up), but I suggest you also need proper advice in order to reassure you. If you have LP, then call them up. It's free, and it's exactly what it's for. If you don't, then contact CAB. Or possibly a 'free 30 minute' consultation with a land-specialist solicitor of repute in your area. 
    First, get the facts down succinctly so you can explain the situation to them briefly and clearly. Your main Q currently is, "Can they really sue me for the legal costs accrued by this neighbour, for activity they have carried out purely at their own behest?"

    Meanwhile, do not worry. I would, tho', start physically making it clear that this land is 'yours'. You say it's scrub? Is there at least one bit where you, or a friend or relative or even a nice neighbour, can get clearly to the true boundary line, and take photographic evidence of having done so? Don't leave it all as hidden scrub where you can't see what's going on, and haven't gone there for donkey's!



  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 26,211 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Nellie67 said:
    Thanks to everyone for your advice and time taken to respond. For clarity this is a boundary at the end of my garden which backs on to my neighbour. This has been an ongoing boundary dispute since March 2023 and I have responded to every solicitor letter politely and at times offered to go above and beyond to help resolve the matter and speed up the process. It is clear that neighbour no longer wants to get a legally determined boundary resolution as they know that the outcome is not the desired one for them. Hence why they have resorted to offering money and bullying tactics. 

    I remain, as I have done throughout, with no need to sell the land. I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor.  They wanted me to sign a draft settlement agreement and I refused. 

    At this point, with the overwhelming feedback on this site, I am determined to now walk away from this very stressful situation. 

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? Could he just sue me for his solicitor costs incurred to date? and if so, then I guess I am bound to instruct a solicitor to counter his claim against me - meaning  I would have my solicitors costs to pay. It would seem to me he just wants to hit me financially now because there's little more he can do. He's not getting his own way in getting the boundary legally moved,  and I'm not agreeing to his purchase price so what else can he do? He's incurred all this cost for nothing. If he sues me and then loses is he also liable to pay a % of my costs?  Could he win a claim against me from what you can tell from the information I have shared? 
    Also, The solicitor correspondence uses the term "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs". 
    Am I right in thinking that this means that the letters may be produced as evidence only for claim of costs? So can I produce their letters as evidence if it were to go to court? 

    Thanks for any more of your sage advice. 




    "I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do?"

    There's a simple answer to that, and it's because you have misunderstood the solicitor's letter, and nobody here has set you straight.

    He is not threatening to sue you for costs incurred to date. He is threatening to litigate the dispute over the ownership of the land. You seem to think that if you just ignore your neighbour and his solicitor, the dispute will go away. But it will only go away if your neighbour decides to back down.

    Even if your neighbour has a simply dreadful case, you can't stop him suing you. The solicitor is simply pointing out that it will cost you a lot of money, even if you win the case and get awarded costs. The costs award you get would only cover around 70% of your costs.

    So, supposing you spend £50k on legal fees to defend this case, you could easily end up £15k out of pocket - assuming you win. 

    You could just ignore all this, and hope it goes away. But, if your neighbour is determined to drag you through the courts, there's nothing you can do to stop him. 


    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 26,211 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 10 March 2024 at 12:40PM
    Nellie67 said:
    This is the text from the latest solicitor letter : 

    Respectfully, the land that is the subject of this dispute has no prospect of being developed
    or being put to any significant use being, as it is, only a narrow strip of land behind a garden
    shed. It, therefore, has no inherent market value and certainly not to the degree you
    propose.
    Further, my clients have spent considerable sums in trying to resolve this dispute, which
    they feel has dragged on for far too long and waiving their opportunity to recover their legal
    costs from you, which they would be entitled to do, is a significant gesture. My clients
    continue to accrue costs as a consequence of this unnecessarily protracted correspondence.
    It was clearly stated in my clients’ offer of 23 February 2024 that there was no scenario
    where they would pay more than the £5,000 being offered and this was their final offer. My
    clients were making a genuine offer that is in excess of the real value of the land and were
    surprised that you rejected it.
    In the event that court proceedings are required, there is no circumstance where you would
    be awarded such a cash sum as my clients are currently offering. Furthermore, irrespective
    of where the judge determines the boundary to lie, there are costs implications for both
    parties, as costs awards do not cover 100% of any one party’s costs.
    The legal costs for a fully contested hearing will be in the tens of thousands of pounds. As
    such the differential for you is between a £5,000 cash sum payable upon registration of the
    boundary agreement or the costs arising from court proceedings. From my clients’ side,
    there is little difference for them between paying you or paying for a court process, although
    the cash option resolves the situation more quickly, as per the wishes of both parties.

    My clients see no benefit of incurring further legal costs through negotiation by
    correspondence, which is clearly not progressing matters, and they have stated this on a
    number of occasions previously. Their £5,000 offer, with each party bearing their own costs,
    as set out in our letter dated 23 February 2024, remains open for a further 7-days. At this
    time the offer will be withdrawn and court proceedings shall be issued, without further notice
    to yourself.
    Here's a translation of that letter:

    My client is as mad as a box of frogs. He is determined to litigate over this worthless scrap of land, unless you give in to his demands. I have pointed out to him that the litigation will be ruinously expensive for both parties, and I have managed to persuade him to make this £5k offer.

    If it goes to court, it will cost you tens of thousands of pounds to defend the case, and even if you win you will only be entitled to 70% of your costs back from my bonkers clients. 

    So, I suggest that you agree to my client's  high-handed offer, as otherwise he seems hell-bent on going to court, and he will drag you both  into the gutter. 







    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,935 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 10 March 2024 at 1:20PM
    Nellie67 said:
    Thanks to everyone for your advice and time taken to respond. For clarity this is a boundary at the end of my garden which backs on to my neighbour. This has been an ongoing boundary dispute since March 2023 and I have responded to every solicitor letter politely and at times offered to go above and beyond to help resolve the matter and speed up the process. It is clear that neighbour no longer wants to get a legally determined boundary resolution as they know that the outcome is not the desired one for them. Hence why they have resorted to offering money and bullying tactics. 

    I remain, as I have done throughout, with no need to sell the land. I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor.  They wanted me to sign a draft settlement agreement and I refused. 

    At this point, with the overwhelming feedback on this site, I am determined to now walk away from this very stressful situation. 

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? Could he just sue me for his solicitor costs incurred to date? and if so, then I guess I am bound to instruct a solicitor to counter his claim against me - meaning  I would have my solicitors costs to pay. It would seem to me he just wants to hit me financially now because there's little more he can do. He's not getting his own way in getting the boundary legally moved,  and I'm not agreeing to his purchase price so what else can he do? He's incurred all this cost for nothing. If he sues me and then loses is he also liable to pay a % of my costs?  Could he win a claim against me from what you can tell from the information I have shared? 
    Also, The solicitor correspondence uses the term "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs". 
    Am I right in thinking that this means that the letters may be produced as evidence only for claim of costs? So can I produce their letters as evidence if it were to go to court? 

    Thanks for any more of your sage advice.
    Hi Nellie.
    Again, we don't have sight of all your correspondence. But, almost certainly, they don't have a cat in hell's chance of making a successful claim.
    Yes, it is bullying, and it strikes me as highly unethical behaviour by a professional solicitor - if that is what they are. It seems to me that this solicitor is making statements that they cannot claim are true, such as their client 'being entitled' to claim off you for their expenditure.
    And - importantly, I think - their reference to this as being a 'dispute'. Shoot that one down - there is NO dispute here; the correct boundary is as you always claimed, and this has been confirmed by two things: the first is the neighbour's Land Survey, and the second is the fact they are now offering to buy 'your' land. Make that clear to them at the first available opportunity :-) "You say diss-pooot, I say poop-poop, let's call the whol..." Seriously, if they mention 'dispute' again, reply with one Q - "Please explain this 'dispute', as I am not aware of one?". If they again mention a 'contested hearing', ask one Q; "Ex-kooooose, me - what is there to 'contest'?"
    You did say above, "I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor." What did your letter say? Was it to give permission, or was there also an implied sharing of the cost for this survey? Worst case - you may be liable for half the cost of this. Do you have a full copy of this survey? If not, you don't pay until you do.
    The threat of it costing you 'tens of thousands of pounds in costs' should this become a 'full contested hearing' in their last letter is shocking behaviour for a solicitor. I really wonder if this is acceptable under the regulating body - it's worth trying to find out. I repeat, your take is that there is NO dispute - the land is obviously and provably yours. There will be no 'contested hearing', as there is nothing to contest.
    As GBD says, there is probably nothing to stop this neighbour trying anything on, but their failure will be at immense cost to them. (Again assuming that this is a bona-fide solicitor - which I'm beginning to doubt.)
    You don't ignore any correspondence from them, but you reply in the briefest and most succinct manner possible. If they mention 'dispute', you correct them - and explain why there isn't one. If they mention 'contested hearing' again, you ditto. You may wish to add that you will be contacting The Law Society over what 'you believe to be' unethical practice.
    Could you check out their letter headings - what does it say on there? Have you Googled this solicitor? Does it say who they are 'regulated' by? If so, contact them, and include the letters being sent by this solicitor. If not, contact the Law Society instead.
    AND - DO YOU HAVE LP?!!!!!
    (I wouldn't say anything at all about the 'sale' - just go completely quiet on this. If you say it's 'off', then they may make more stupid threats out of pique. If you say nothing, they may hope there's still a chance, and it may 'temper' them a bit - lol... Either way, it'll drive them utterly barmy you not saying anything about it :-)  )

    (PS I have asked some Qs about this on another forum - I hope that's ok? It's 'GardenLaw', and they have some 'legal' bods on there. I asked about the methods being used by this solicitor.)



  • MobileSaver
    MobileSaver Posts: 4,339 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    GDB2222 said:
    Nellie67 said:
    Thanks to everyone for your advice and time taken to respond. For clarity this is a boundary at the end of my garden which backs on to my neighbour. This has been an ongoing boundary dispute since March 2023 and I have responded to every solicitor letter politely and at times offered to go above and beyond to help resolve the matter and speed up the process. It is clear that neighbour no longer wants to get a legally determined boundary resolution as they know that the outcome is not the desired one for them. Hence why they have resorted to offering money and bullying tactics. 

    I remain, as I have done throughout, with no need to sell the land. I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor.  They wanted me to sign a draft settlement agreement and I refused. 

    At this point, with the overwhelming feedback on this site, I am determined to now walk away from this very stressful situation. 

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? Could he just sue me for his solicitor costs incurred to date? and if so, then I guess I am bound to instruct a solicitor to counter his claim against me - meaning  I would have my solicitors costs to pay. It would seem to me he just wants to hit me financially now because there's little more he can do. He's not getting his own way in getting the boundary legally moved,  and I'm not agreeing to his purchase price so what else can he do? He's incurred all this cost for nothing. If he sues me and then loses is he also liable to pay a % of my costs?  Could he win a claim against me from what you can tell from the information I have shared? 
    Also, The solicitor correspondence uses the term "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs". 
    Am I right in thinking that this means that the letters may be produced as evidence only for claim of costs? So can I produce their letters as evidence if it were to go to court? 

    Thanks for any more of your sage advice. 




    So, supposing you spend £50k on legal fees to defend this case, you could easily end up £15k out of pocket - assuming you win.
    While in theory that could happen, in practice it is incredibly unlikely and even then only if the OP allows it to happen so I think you are unnecessarily scaring the OP.
    As you say, anyone can sue anyone for anything but winning is something else entirely. I do agree with you that I think ignoring this is the wrong decision; the OP should reply robustly but succinctly that the professional surveyor appointed by the neighbour has confirmed that the boundary is not where the neighbour believed it to be thus resolving the boundary dispute and that the OP does not wish to sell the land so considers the matter closed.
    If the neighbour does sue then the amounts we are talking about are within the "small claims" limits so neither side can reclaim their costs from the other side and solicitors are often not necessary. The "court" will probably be an informal setting with the neighbour, OP and a Judge in a room; the OP will present their deeds and the surveyor's report confirming the boundary position and to my mind it's a slam dunk. Since from what the OP has said the case should never have gone to court, a friendly Judge may even award the OP £50 or so for litigant in person and travelling costs.

    Every generation blames the one before...
    Mike + The Mechanics - The Living Years
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 26,211 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 10 March 2024 at 3:07PM
    GDB2222 said:
    Nellie67 said:
    Thanks to everyone for your advice and time taken to respond. For clarity this is a boundary at the end of my garden which backs on to my neighbour. This has been an ongoing boundary dispute since March 2023 and I have responded to every solicitor letter politely and at times offered to go above and beyond to help resolve the matter and speed up the process. It is clear that neighbour no longer wants to get a legally determined boundary resolution as they know that the outcome is not the desired one for them. Hence why they have resorted to offering money and bullying tactics. 

    I remain, as I have done throughout, with no need to sell the land. I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor.  They wanted me to sign a draft settlement agreement and I refused. 

    At this point, with the overwhelming feedback on this site, I am determined to now walk away from this very stressful situation. 

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? Could he just sue me for his solicitor costs incurred to date? and if so, then I guess I am bound to instruct a solicitor to counter his claim against me - meaning  I would have my solicitors costs to pay. It would seem to me he just wants to hit me financially now because there's little more he can do. He's not getting his own way in getting the boundary legally moved,  and I'm not agreeing to his purchase price so what else can he do? He's incurred all this cost for nothing. If he sues me and then loses is he also liable to pay a % of my costs?  Could he win a claim against me from what you can tell from the information I have shared? 
    Also, The solicitor correspondence uses the term "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs". 
    Am I right in thinking that this means that the letters may be produced as evidence only for claim of costs? So can I produce their letters as evidence if it were to go to court? 

    Thanks for any more of your sage advice. 




    So, supposing you spend £50k on legal fees to defend this case, you could easily end up £15k out of pocket - assuming you win.
    While in theory that could happen, in practice it is incredibly unlikely and even then only if the OP allows it to happen so I think you are unnecessarily scaring the OP.
    As you say, anyone can sue anyone for anything but winning is something else entirely. I do agree with you that I think ignoring this is the wrong decision; the OP should reply robustly but succinctly that the professional surveyor appointed by the neighbour has confirmed that the boundary is not where the neighbour believed it to be thus resolving the boundary dispute and that the OP does not wish to sell the land so considers the matter closed.
    If the neighbour does sue then the amounts we are talking about are within the "small claims" limits so neither side can reclaim their costs from the other side and solicitors are often not necessary. The "court" will probably be an informal setting with the neighbour, OP and a Judge in a room; the OP will present their deeds and the surveyor's report confirming the boundary position and to my mind it's a slam dunk. Since from what the OP has said the case should never have gone to court, a friendly Judge may even award the OP £50 or so for litigant in person and travelling costs.

    It's interesting that you say that. You probably had in mind the well known case of Davis v Winner, from 2022.

    That case, like virtually all cases involving boundary disputes was classified as 'complex', and it was allocated to the Fast Track initially, and re-allocated to Multi-Track.

    The land in the case  - a strip less than half a metre wide - was worth less than £10,000, but the parties spent £200,000 in legal fees! Everyone agrees that that was totally disproportionate, but once these cases get started it becomes necessary to continue in order to try to get a costs order, as the costs are far more important than the strip of land being argued about.

    After deciding the case, the judge mused (obiter dicta)  “if the parties had thought about [keeping costs down], they would have sought to have the Claim initially allocated, or subsequently re-allocated, to the small claim tracks.”    Based on that, some of these cases are now being allocated to the Small Claims track, as you say.

    However, that doesn't reduce the complexity, and if Nellie's neighbour is represented by counsel then Nellie would be wise to be represented, too. If Nellie isn't represented, then he/she is almost bound to lose. That's what happens in complex cases, as litigants in person simply don't understand the law and procedures sufficiently well, I'm afraid. You describe the case as 'slam dunk', but that's not what happens when LIPs come up against barristers.  Nellie would be better off agreeing the £5k payment, rather than appearing unrepresented and almost inevitably losing the case.

    And, of course, if the case is allocated to the small claims track, Nellie will have to pay all of his/her own costs. So, while the costs are likely to be lower in the small claims track, Nellie can't expect any contribution from the neighbour if Nellie wins.   

    If you re-read the letter from the neighbour's solicitor, it's effectively saying that it doesn't matter whether the neighbour has a good clase or not, it's worth taking the £5k on offer, rather than having an expensive law case. 

    Of course, the neighbour may be bluffing big time, but we don't know that. 


    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • MobileSaver
    MobileSaver Posts: 4,339 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    GDB2222 said:
    GDB2222 said:
    Nellie67 said:
    Thanks to everyone for your advice and time taken to respond. For clarity this is a boundary at the end of my garden which backs on to my neighbour. This has been an ongoing boundary dispute since March 2023 and I have responded to every solicitor letter politely and at times offered to go above and beyond to help resolve the matter and speed up the process. It is clear that neighbour no longer wants to get a legally determined boundary resolution as they know that the outcome is not the desired one for them. Hence why they have resorted to offering money and bullying tactics. 

    I remain, as I have done throughout, with no need to sell the land. I have signed no agreements or contracts other than an instruction letter for the surveyor.  They wanted me to sign a draft settlement agreement and I refused. 

    At this point, with the overwhelming feedback on this site, I am determined to now walk away from this very stressful situation. 

    I guess my only question now is on what grounds could they take me to court as he threatens to do? Could he just sue me for his solicitor costs incurred to date? and if so, then I guess I am bound to instruct a solicitor to counter his claim against me - meaning  I would have my solicitors costs to pay. It would seem to me he just wants to hit me financially now because there's little more he can do. He's not getting his own way in getting the boundary legally moved,  and I'm not agreeing to his purchase price so what else can he do? He's incurred all this cost for nothing. If he sues me and then loses is he also liable to pay a % of my costs?  Could he win a claim against me from what you can tell from the information I have shared? 
    Also, The solicitor correspondence uses the term "Without Prejudice Save as to Costs". 
    Am I right in thinking that this means that the letters may be produced as evidence only for claim of costs? So can I produce their letters as evidence if it were to go to court? 

    Thanks for any more of your sage advice. 




    So, supposing you spend £50k on legal fees to defend this case, you could easily end up £15k out of pocket - assuming you win.
    While in theory that could happen, in practice it is incredibly unlikely and even then only if the OP allows it to happen so I think you are unnecessarily scaring the OP.
    As you say, anyone can sue anyone for anything but winning is something else entirely. I do agree with you that I think ignoring this is the wrong decision; the OP should reply robustly but succinctly that the professional surveyor appointed by the neighbour has confirmed that the boundary is not where the neighbour believed it to be thus resolving the boundary dispute and that the OP does not wish to sell the land so considers the matter closed.
    If the neighbour does sue then the amounts we are talking about are within the "small claims" limits so neither side can reclaim their costs from the other side and solicitors are often not necessary. The "court" will probably be an informal setting with the neighbour, OP and a Judge in a room; the OP will present their deeds and the surveyor's report confirming the boundary position and to my mind it's a slam dunk. Since from what the OP has said the case should never have gone to court, a friendly Judge may even award the OP £50 or so for litigant in person and travelling costs.

     You probably had in mind the well known case of Davis v Winner, The land in the case  - a strip less than half a metre wide - was worth less than £10,000, but the parties spent £200,000 in legal fees!
    There are around 1.5 million small claims cases each year, how many end up like that?
    As I said, even in those one in a million cases, the OP would need to allow that to happen by instructing a solicitor and then racking up huge bills - that's not going to happen.
    GDB2222 said:
    If you re-read the letter from the neighbour's solicitor, it's effectively saying that it doesn't matter whether the neighbour has a good clase or not, it's worth taking the £5k on offer.
    Of course the solicitor would say that, they are trying to bully the OP into accepting the neighbour's unacceptable deal.

    Every generation blames the one before...
    Mike + The Mechanics - The Living Years
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 350.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453.5K Spending & Discounts
  • 243.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 598.8K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.9K Life & Family
  • 257.2K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.