Transfer of ownership of a small piece of garden land to a neighbour

ThisIsWeird

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

A seemingly straight-forward thread has suddenly exploded with all sorts of warning bells.
Nellie, do you have anyone - a knowledgeable clear-headed friend or family member - to help you with this?
Do you know WHY your neighb wants this land? Is there any possibility that it could make their plot large enough for a currently-limited extension, or even a full new build? Has this happened to other plots in your neighbourhood, for example?
Any chance you could post anonymised deeds plans of your two properties, showing the piece of land in question?
And could you provide more (brief) details of what has gone on in this exchange so far?
Eg: "Feb 2023 - neighbour called round to ask about the scrub land at the bottom of my garden. Said they'd love this for XYZ, and said they'd pay for it..."
Blah blah blah.
I think a few ears on here were pricked when you mentioned the 'surveyor', and in particular that they didn't like the report! May I ask, did you arrange for this survey, or your neighb? And I presume it indicated that you held more land than they'd assumed, presumably at their expense?! Ie, the existing presumed 'boundary' on the ground is actually incorrect, and should be further into your neighbour's plot, giving you more land? If so, by how much?
Please do not be stressed by this situation, and certainly not be pressurised or coerced into selling. Only do so when you are totally happy with the terms and arrangements, and know that they are fair. That includes any possible devaluation of your property as a result. From what you say, this is unused 'scrub' land, and would likely remain that way with you? But, could any future owner make good use of it? Eg, could an extension be added to your house, with this 'scrub' being turned into a new proper garden to compensate? Or, could it be cleared to allow a garden room or office at the bottom of your garden? The potential for these should not be underestimated, or how the loss of them could affect your house's value.

MobileSaver

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs.

There's a danger here that some replies in this thread are/were based on this being a normal "neighbour wants to buy a bit of my garden" situation but it sounds like there's a backstory that may change everyone's advice.

@Nellie67 can you explain on what basis the neighbour is threatening to take you to court?

ManuelG

Certainly would change advice. If it's offer money or take you to court that's a threat really, so should be met with the response it deserves, which is a resounding no sale.

GDB2222

Nellie67 said:

My neighbour wants to purchase a small patch of my garden and has offered a sum of money for this to be official.  Their solicitor wrote : "my clients are prepared to offer you £5,000 to

enter into a boundary agreement on the basis of the below diagram. The money shall be

held by xxxxxx in escrow to be paid to you once registration has been

completed. My clients shall not seek a contribution to their costs."
They do not seek contribution too their costs, but I'm trying to understand what MY costs will be if I agree to sell it. I have not appointed a solicitor thus far and was hoping to avoid this cost if I can as it seems quite straight forward. Does a surveyor/ conveyancer/solicitor need to be appointed if the boundary location has been agreed between the parties with a drawn plan and the sum agreed? 
Will the Land Registry fee be my cost of the neighbour's cost? 
Is there anything I should be considering that I have not thought of? 
Thanks for any sage advice. 

In principle, you can do this yourself. It is normal for the purchaser to see to the registration, so you don’t need to worry about that, and you could just sign any paperwork the buyer’s solicitor provides, and hope for the best! 

However, you really should have your own solicitor, and the only way you will know the cost is by asking firms to quote. I imagine that you would be looking at at least £1000, even though it’s a tiny transaction. 

Nellie67

propertyrental said:

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

Take you to court for what? Have you signed a contract of any sort?

they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub

The value of the land is not based just on its size, nor on the fact that it's a bit ofn scrub. The value depends how much they want/need it!? What they will use it for? It also depends how deparate you are to sell and get some small cash amount?

If you want £7500, then stich at that and refuse to sell for less. If they aren't willing to pay that then clearly they aren't that bothered about owning it.

Likewise the surveyor and legal costs etc - insist they pay or you won't sell. And get your solicitor to draw up a contract clearly specifying they will pay £7500 plus all costs.

This has been a long protracted argument going back months. The guy contested that the bit of land at the bottom of my garden was his. To and Fro ensued between his solicitor and me. I did not get a solicitor because I don't need one. My deeds clearly state the length of my garden and he is arguing over that. So after a round table meeting we agreed to get surveyors in (at his cost) to once and for all agree where the border should be. And surprise surprise, the surveyor report fell in my favour. They then said that the surveyor report was null and void because they hadn't followed the procedures laid out by the solicitor. The only thing that he didn't do was tell them when he was coming to do the survey! 
So they then said we'll get another surveyor. I agreed and said go ahead, choose one yourself. I;m not bothered, the result will still be the same. At which point they changed tack and said they would like to buy the land for a reasonable amount. . 
I said if I was going to sell I'd ask for £10k, but lets get a surveyor in and finish what we started. 
They said £10k - outragious, I'll give you £5k and not a penny more. You've got 7 days and the offer is off the table and we'll take you to court for costs because you have delayed and caused considerable costs in solicitor fees. 
I said, I'm happy to accept £7,500 to close this matter or get a surveyor. Or take me to court - but for what? I've complied every step of the way. 
2 weeks it took them to respond. No mention of a surveyor. It's £5k. They'll cover their costs (so I don't know what my costs are). 7 day offer or court. But I don't understand what they can take me to court for? What have I actually done? And if they do take me to court (not sure what grounds) that will mean a solicitor and all those costs and stress and hassle that goes with that but in the end he'll still not be awarded the land! 
From what everyone is saying here you think I should stick to my guns. Is he seriously going to take this to court? 

SDLT_Geek

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

Take you to court for what? Have you signed a contract of any sort?

they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub

The value of the land is not based just on its size, nor on the fact that it's a bit ofn scrub. The value depends how much they want/need it!? What they will use it for? It also depends how deparate you are to sell and get some small cash amount?

If you want £7500, then stich at that and refuse to sell for less. If they aren't willing to pay that then clearly they aren't that bothered about owning it.

Likewise the surveyor and legal costs etc - insist they pay or you won't sell. And get your solicitor to draw up a contract clearly specifying they will pay £7500 plus all costs.

This has been a long protracted argument going back months. The guy contested that the bit of land at the bottom of my garden was his. To and Fro ensued between his solicitor and me. I did not get a solicitor because I don't need one. My deeds clearly state the length of my garden and he is arguing over that. So after a round table meeting we agreed to get surveyors in (at his cost) to once and for all agree where the border should be. And surprise surprise, the surveyor report fell in my favour. They then said that the surveyor report was null and void because they hadn't followed the procedures laid out by the solicitor. The only thing that he didn't do was tell them when he was coming to do the survey! 
So they then said we'll get another surveyor. I agreed and said go ahead, choose one yourself. I;m not bothered, the result will still be the same. At which point they changed tack and said they would like to buy the land for a reasonable amount. . 
I said if I was going to sell I'd ask for £10k, but lets get a surveyor in and finish what we started. 
They said £10k - outragious, I'll give you £5k and not a penny more. You've got 7 days and the offer is off the table and we'll take you to court for costs because you have delayed and caused considerable costs in solicitor fees. 
I said, I'm happy to accept £7,500 to close this matter or get a surveyor. Or take me to court - but for what? I've complied every step of the way. 
2 weeks it took them to respond. No mention of a surveyor. It's £5k. They'll cover their costs (so I don't know what my costs are). 7 day offer or court. But I don't understand what they can take me to court for? What have I actually done? And if they do take me to court (not sure what grounds) that will mean a solicitor and all those costs and stress and hassle that goes with that but in the end he'll still not be awarded the land! 
From what everyone is saying here you think I should stick to my guns. Is he seriously going to take this to court? 

The background is helpful.  You might well decide not to sell them the land.  If you do wish to sell, then I have a point on your first post where you say:

"The money shall be held by xxxxxx in escrow to be paid to you once registration has been completed."

That is a most unusual term for a land sale.  Usually the price is paid over to you on the transfer being dated (that is when beneficial ownership of the land passes).  I would not accept their terms about the money being held in escrow until the registration has completed:

(a)  It transfers to you the risk of there being a problem with their registration.

(b)  Registrations of transfers of part are taking a long time for the Land Registry to finalise (over a year I think).

(c)  The escrow arrangements would be needlessly complex, having to cover a range of "what ifs".

This matter has plenty of red flags.  You might do better to ignore them.

Nellie67

ThisIsWeird said:

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

A seemingly straight-forward thread has suddenly exploded with all sorts of warning bells.
Nellie, do you have anyone - a knowledgeable clear-headed friend or family member - to help you with this?
Do you know WHY your neighb wants this land? Is there any possibility that it could make their plot large enough for a currently-limited extension, or even a full new build? Has this happened to other plots in your neighbourhood, for example?
Any chance you could post anonymised deeds plans of your two properties, showing the piece of land in question?
And could you provide more (brief) details of what has gone on in this exchange so far?
Eg: "Feb 2023 - neighbour called round to ask about the scrub land at the bottom of my garden. Said they'd love this for XYZ, and said they'd pay for it..."
Blah blah blah.
I think a few ears on here were pricked when you mentioned the 'surveyor', and in particular that they didn't like the report! May I ask, did you arrange for this survey, or your neighb? And I presume it indicated that you held more land than they'd assumed, presumably at their expense?! Ie, the existing presumed 'boundary' on the ground is actually incorrect, and should be further into your neighbour's plot, giving you more land? If so, by how much?
Please do not be stressed by this situation, and certainly not be pressurised or coerced into selling. Only do so when you are totally happy with the terms and arrangements, and know that they are fair. That includes any possible devaluation of your property as a result. From what you say, this is unused 'scrub' land, and would likely remain that way with you? But, could any future owner make good use of it? Eg, could an extension be added to your house, with this 'scrub' being turned into a new proper garden to compensate? Or, could it be cleared to allow a garden room or office at the bottom of your garden? The potential for these should not be underestimated, or how the loss of them could affect your house's value.

ThisIsWeird said:

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

A seemingly straight-forward thread has suddenly exploded with all sorts of warning bells.
Nellie, do you have anyone - a knowledgeable clear-headed friend or family member - to help you with this?
Do you know WHY your neighb wants this land? Is there any possibility that it could make their plot large enough for a currently-limited extension, or even a full new build? Has this happened to other plots in your neighbourhood, for example?
Any chance you could post anonymised deeds plans of your two properties, showing the piece of land in question?
And could you provide more (brief) details of what has gone on in this exchange so far?
Eg: "Feb 2023 - neighbour called round to ask about the scrub land at the bottom of my garden. Said they'd love this for XYZ, and said they'd pay for it..."
Blah blah blah.
I think a few ears on here were pricked when you mentioned the 'surveyor', and in particular that they didn't like the report! May I ask, did you arrange for this survey, or your neighb? And I presume it indicated that you held more land than they'd assumed, presumably at their expense?! Ie, the existing presumed 'boundary' on the ground is actually incorrect, and should be further into your neighbour's plot, giving you more land? If so, by how much?
Please do not be stressed by this situation, and certainly not be pressurised or coerced into selling. Only do so when you are totally happy with the terms and arrangements, and know that they are fair. That includes any possible devaluation of your property as a result. From what you say, this is unused 'scrub' land, and would likely remain that way with you? But, could any future owner make good use of it? Eg, could an extension be added to your house, with this 'scrub' being turned into a new proper garden to compensate? Or, could it be cleared to allow a garden room or office at the bottom of your garden? The potential for these should not be underestimated, or how the loss of them could affect your house's value.

The surveyor appointed by the neighbour/solicitor found that the border should be approx where I said it should be, in fact marginally gave me more but we're talking inches. I've tried to summarise the situation in one of my other responses. Does that help? 

Nellie67

This is the text from the latest solicitor letter : 

Respectfully, the land that is the subject of this dispute has no prospect of being developed

or being put to any significant use being, as it is, only a narrow strip of land behind a garden

shed. It, therefore, has no inherent market value and certainly not to the degree you

propose.

Further, my clients have spent considerable sums in trying to resolve this dispute, which

they feel has dragged on for far too long and waiving their opportunity to recover their legal

costs from you, which they would be entitled to do, is a significant gesture. My clients

continue to accrue costs as a consequence of this unnecessarily protracted correspondence.

It was clearly stated in my clients’ offer of 23 February 2024 that there was no scenario

where they would pay more than the £5,000 being offered and this was their final offer. My

clients were making a genuine offer that is in excess of the real value of the land and were

surprised that you rejected it.

In the event that court proceedings are required, there is no circumstance where you would

be awarded such a cash sum as my clients are currently offering. Furthermore, irrespective

of where the judge determines the boundary to lie, there are costs implications for both

parties, as costs awards do not cover 100% of any one party’s costs.

The legal costs for a fully contested hearing will be in the tens of thousands of pounds. As

such the differential for you is between a £5,000 cash sum payable upon registration of the

boundary agreement or the costs arising from court proceedings. From my clients’ side,

there is little difference for them between paying you or paying for a court process, although

the cash option resolves the situation more quickly, as per the wishes of both parties.

My clients see no benefit of incurring further legal costs through negotiation by

correspondence, which is clearly not progressing matters, and they have stated this on a

number of occasions previously. Their £5,000 offer, with each party bearing their own costs,

as set out in our letter dated 23 February 2024, remains open for a further 7-days. At this

time the offer will be withdrawn and court proceedings shall be issued, without further notice

to yourself.

Nellie67

I should also add that at no time have I said I want to sell the land. I have said I am happy to get another surveyor in to plot where the border should be but they seem hell bent now on buying it. 

MobileSaver

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Nellie67 said:

propertyrental said:

Assuming you are happy with the sale price (are you....?) tell the neighbour/his solicitor you expect him to fully cover your costs ie your solicitor, survvey to draw up the new boundary and specify the two new Land registry Plans (ie your reduced garden Plan and the new Plan for the land being sold, plus all Land registry and other related costs.

No reason for you to bear any costs as it is the neighbour who wants this to happen....

Do you have a mortgage? If so your lender will have to approve the sale (and there might be a cost for them to consider the request which, again, your neighbour should cover).

ps - is this your neighbour......?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6511776/buying-land#latest

Thanks. No there is no mortgage on the property so no lender approval needed. I originally contested the price and asked for £7,500. But they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub at the end of my garden). 
This has been a long drawn out exchange of emails which started with getting a surveyor in to determine the boundary. They didn't like the surveyor outcome so found an excuse to contest it based on the fact that the surveyor hadn't complied with instructions. Since then they are wanting to offer money or take me to court for costs. 
I want it to end and really don't want to go to court. Nor do I want any costs. But I will accept the £5k. 

Take you to court for what? Have you signed a contract of any sort?

they are sticking with £5k (which to be fair is reasonable for the size of the bit of scrub

The value of the land is not based just on its size, nor on the fact that it's a bit ofn scrub. The value depends how much they want/need it!? What they will use it for? It also depends how deparate you are to sell and get some small cash amount?

If you want £7500, then stich at that and refuse to sell for less. If they aren't willing to pay that then clearly they aren't that bothered about owning it.

Likewise the surveyor and legal costs etc - insist they pay or you won't sell. And get your solicitor to draw up a contract clearly specifying they will pay £7500 plus all costs.

This has been a long protracted argument going back months. The guy contested that the bit of land at the bottom of my garden was his. To and Fro ensued between his solicitor and me. I did not get a solicitor because I don't need one. My deeds clearly state the length of my garden and he is arguing over that. So after a round table meeting we agreed to get surveyors in (at his cost) to once and for all agree where the border should be. And surprise surprise, the surveyor report fell in my favour. They then said that the surveyor report was null and void because they hadn't followed the procedures laid out by the solicitor. The only thing that he didn't do was tell them when he was coming to do the survey! 
So they then said we'll get another surveyor. I agreed and said go ahead, choose one yourself. I;m not bothered, the result will still be the same. At which point they changed tack and said they would like to buy the land for a reasonable amount. . 
I said if I was going to sell I'd ask for £10k, but lets get a surveyor in and finish what we started. 
They said £10k - outragious, I'll give you £5k and not a penny more. You've got 7 days and the offer is off the table and we'll take you to court for costs because you have delayed and caused considerable costs in solicitor fees. 
I said, I'm happy to accept £7,500 to close this matter or get a surveyor. Or take me to court - but for what? I've complied every step of the way. 
2 weeks it took them to respond. No mention of a surveyor. It's £5k. They'll cover their costs (so I don't know what my costs are). 7 day offer or court. But I don't understand what they can take me to court for? What have I actually done? And if they do take me to court (not sure what grounds) that will mean a solicitor and all those costs and stress and hassle that goes with that but in the end he'll still not be awarded the land! 
From what everyone is saying here you think I should stick to my guns. Is he seriously going to take this to court? 

Absolutely you should stick to your guns! The fact they're offering you £5k is a dead giveaway they have no confidence they would win in court. Additionally the fact a surveyor they appointed has already sided with you pretty much blows any argument they may have had out of the water.

If you are happy with £5k then at the absolute minimum you need to insist it is £5k plus they pay all costs including yours. Otherwise you could easily see several thousand of that £5,000 eaten up in costs, particularly as you already know they are argumentative.

If it were me I would counter with £7,500 plus all costs or no deal but I'd rather have a bigger garden than an extra £5k so easy for me to say.

They can't take you to court for "costs because you have delayed and caused considerable costs in solicitor fees" unless you had previously agreed some sort of terms and conditions with them. (Well they can take you to court but they've no chance of winning so it would be a foolish thing for them to do!)