Reading as a cheap hobby

kimwp

Brie said:

Brambling said:

I wonder if the German translations have been updated to be more PC as well? 

I always wonder at making books more PC.  I don't like a lot of the sexist, racist, xenophobic attitudes that were considered normal and acceptable in bygone days but I do think that books should be read in context.  Frankly I think that almost any book more than a decade or two old will exhibit some surprising views but that's part of the learning process to understand what was then and what is now.

Or am I completely mad?  

I get your point, but I think children's books in particular should be written in a way that doesn't encourage harmful views as what they read will form their understanding of the world. Ideally books with harmful attitudes would be studied academically, rather than read for leisure.

Floss

Brie said:

PipneyJane said:

Brie said:

btw - also in the biblio was some Enid Blyton.  In German.   

I love this @Brie.  I loved my Enid Blyton. So glad that they’ve been translated so that German children can enjoy them too.

I've never read any Enid Blyton but have heard the books talked about a lot.  Actually my family did have a Noddy book but the pictures terrified me as a child so I didn't want to look at it let alone read it at all.  

My dad wouldn't have Noddy books in our house, he was the same with Beatrix Potter as he thought they were poorly written so we were brought up on Peter & Jane, Famous Five & Secret Seven,  Hoffnung cartoons, The Goons and Allan Sherman records which all explain a lot!

elsien

kimwp said:

Brie said:

Brambling said:

I wonder if the German translations have been updated to be more PC as well? 

I always wonder at making books more PC.  I don't like a lot of the sexist, racist, xenophobic attitudes that were considered normal and acceptable in bygone days but I do think that books should be read in context.  Frankly I think that almost any book more than a decade or two old will exhibit some surprising views but that's part of the learning process to understand what was then and what is now.

Or am I completely mad?  

I get your point, but I think children's books in particular should be written in a way that doesn't encourage harmful views as what they read will form their understanding of the world. Ideally books with harmful attitudes would be studied academically, rather than read for leisure.

Some Enid Blyton books are incredibly sexist. I enjoyed them when I was a child, although looking at them now I do wonder why, but didn’t take those views on board and they certainly don’t inform how I think now.

Our influences come from those around us and critical thinking from what we read, so I wouldn’t be removing books just because aspects are a bit dodgy in terms of today’s changed views. Discussion is more valuable than just stopping children reading it in the first place.

weenancyinAmerica

I have four copies of the first volume of Nancy Drew. The first couple of editions are very racist. Some of the Erle Stanley Gardner books (Perry Mason) were written during World War II and are very anti-Japanese. You do have to read books in context with the world at the time they were written (Remembering the drug use in the Lord Peter Wimsey books, too). They are trying to ban the first Dr. Seuss book (Too Think That I Saw It on Mulberry Street) because it was racist. I don't think books should be banned if it is a change in culture that has made the difference. Maybe they can add a page of reference into the front of the books or something. We don't ban any books at our book sales. I mean if we did, I would ban some that another person on the Friends thinks is great - a difference in political view. Then there wouldn't be anything left to read and think about. We avoid discussing politics and religion at our meetings. Lots of differences there.

PipneyJane

elsien said:

kimwp said:

Brie said:

Brambling said:

I wonder if the German translations have been updated to be more PC as well? 

I always wonder at making books more PC.  I don't like a lot of the sexist, racist, xenophobic attitudes that were considered normal and acceptable in bygone days but I do think that books should be read in context.  Frankly I think that almost any book more than a decade or two old will exhibit some surprising views but that's part of the learning process to understand what was then and what is now.

Or am I completely mad?  

I get your point, but I think children's books in particular should be written in a way that doesn't encourage harmful views as what they read will form their understanding of the world. Ideally books with harmful attitudes would be studied academically, rather than read for leisure.

Some Enid Blyton books are incredibly sexist. I enjoyed them when I was a child, although looking at them now I do wonder why, but didn’t take those views on board and they certainly don’t inform how I think now.

Our influences come from those around us and critical thinking from what we read, so I wouldn’t be removing books just because aspects are a bit dodgy in terms of today’s changed views. Discussion is more valuable than just stopping children reading it in the first place.

I completely agree, @elsien.  When you question content, you learn about when it was written and why that belief is wrong.

Frankly, the most sexist things I’ve ever read are women’s magazines.  Are you pretty enough? Are your clothes sexy enough? Are you wearing the right brands to attract a rich boyfriend?  Are you going to the right clubs, so that you can meet the man of your dreams?  Is your man rich enough to keep you in the manner to which you want to become accustomed?  

Bored, browsing women’’s magazines in a doctor’s waiting room recently, I was disappointed to see that the messages haven’t changed in the 30-ish years since I stopped buying them.

- Pip



ETA @weenancyinAmerica what is the name of the first Nancy Drew book?  I loved the ones that I read, when I was a child.  I don’t recall any racists messages, but I know I didn’t read all of the books, only the handful that I could find in libraries or secondhand.  (Nancy was another role model for me.  Be brave. Question. Have adventures. Be strong.  Oh, and drive a convertible.😁  Never managed the latter.)

IrishRose12

Currently reading Jeffrey Deaver's The Watch Makers Hand.  I love Jeffery Deaver and his Lincoln Rhyme series. 
Next on the reading list is the new Shari Lampena Book. 

Regarding the old childrens books and the PC era.
Personally I don't like the fact that this is being forced upon us, and I refuse to purchase any new "updated" books just because some people get their feelings hurt.  

I'm a 30 odd year old woman I'm not a fan of this PC world.  I don't support it at all.  And won't be forced into it or have it forced upon my children.  I'm fully aware of what is and isn't acceptable, and my children also know this.  However I'm also fully aware that there are just some things that women can't or shouldn't be doing, just as there are some things that men can't or shouldn't be doing. It has nothing to do with "rights" etc.

I loved the Enid Blyon books, especially the Famous 5 books.  Thankfully I still have my original books from when I was young, and no - I don't find them offensive or sexist.  

When I read those books growing up, along with my friends we didn't see it as how we had to see things or how things were done.  We were fully aware these books were made up and not true, our parents taught us what was right and wrong, our parents corrected us if we were in the wrong, and our parents raised us to understand right from wrong..... no books done that, and no books "infuenced" us to behave in a certain way.  
Same as my children now. It's me and my OH that ensure they now right from wrong, and ensure that they behave appropiately etc,  They will never be influenced by a book.  Aim for their dreams yes by all means, but a book won't teach my children to be angels, little brats, racist or sexist or whatever else the PC brigade cry about.

A lot of the PC brigade are "concerend" about books, fiction, made up stories,  yet they have no qulams allowing their children to spend their life on Tik Toc, Youtube and other social media platforms.  All these filters, pouting.  Most children don't even know how to smile these days, or they're covering their faces in pictures or doing all these stupid poses. The internet is what is causing the trouble these days, its social media that encourages racisim, etc.  Well social media and what is being taught at home....Not books.  Most kids dont even read these unless its things about plastering their faces in make up and pouting. 
I don't for the life of me understand why the feminie and PC groups don't see a problem with all these children being encouraged to wear clothes that don't cover their backsides, showing off far too much body/skin, encouraging the use of make-up and all this pouting to make them "look good".  But god forbid they should read a good old classic book where children were just children and innocent.

I have actually started to purchase older books when I come across them so my children can read the original perfect stories, instead of the changed snowflake version. 
The Sweet Valley High and Sweet Valley kids books, and Mr Majeika books are the collections I'm trying to get at the moment.
When they started talking about re-wriiting the Roald Dahl books, I thanked my lucky stars that I have all the orginal books.
Between me, my sister and our friend, when we find out they want to "ban" a book or re-write a book, we go all out to find the original book so we can keep those books in existance and they don't disapper over time.  

We also have my old Ladybird books such as The Wideawake Mice, old fairytales etc.  Old classics and still brilliant stories that my children love to hear. My OH has a collection of his Dennis the Menace comics, Action Man books and lots of other comics like Teenage mutant ninja turtles, Thomas the Tank Engine, and Ghostbusters etc that he can't wait to introduce to the children. 

Brie

I do remember my brothers trying to tell me that as a girl I shouldn't be reading The Hardy Boys books but should be reading Nancy Drew instead.  Frankly I didn't really recognise much of a difference.  And I think that being the youngest and only girl in a family of boys meant I was quite ready to ignore the gender differences because I just wanted to be doing all the fun things in either series.  

I think for all out racism I would have to name Little Black Sambo.  I got a copy years back at a uni book sale - no one would buy it for obvious reasons but I was curious as I'd heard about it but never seen it before.  Might be one of the few books I'd say should never be resurrected.  

Floss

IrishRose12 said:

...Most kids dont even read these unless its things about plastering their faces in make up and pouting...

I know someone whose 11yo daughter gets a Sephora makeup advent calendar & has an expensive skin care routine. That is (to me) ridiculous, unnatural and not appropriate. This child hasn't yet started high school, or hit puberty yet her mum is adultifying her daughter.

Floss

Brie said:

I do remember my brothers trying to tell me that as a girl I shouldn't be reading The Hardy Boys books but should be reading Nancy Drew instead.  Frankly I didn't really recognise much of a difference.  And I think that being the youngest and only girl in a family of boys meant I was quite ready to ignore the gender differences because I just wanted to be doing all the fun things in either series.    

I grew up with 3 brothers, and read the William books along with Jennings, Biggles, Ivanhoe and Colditz!

weenancyinAmerica

Pip - It was The Secret of the Old Clock. There was a section written in what was supposedly black dialect having to do with a caretaker. Part got shorter in the second edition. Later editions eliminated the position entirely.

I had a complete set of Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys. Now passed along to grandniece and grandnephews. 

I mainly read mystery cozies now and non-fiction books on a wide variety of subjects.