Help understanding excessive electricity usage

1moneyspendingexpert1

MWT said:

1moneyspendingexpert1 said:

It is worth noting that only the day reading (2) works on my meter. The figure of the night reading (1) has never gone up since we moved here over 3 years ago.

Can you post a photo of your electricity meter or at least describe it for us..?

As it is an older E7 meter, is there a mechanical clock nearby that looks something like this...

If so is it set to the correct time, or has it got stuck?

Thank you for your reply. I'm currently at work, but I have this image of my meter still on my phone, as I take a picture so that I can submit it on the Octopus website. The number 2 is the day rate, then it changes to number 1 for the night rate, which has remained the same number since moving there 3 years ago.

(Image removed by Forum Team)

Veteransaver

1moneyspendingexpert1 said:

Veteransaver said:

1moneyspendingexpert1 said:

Veteransaver said:

Do you only use electric for heating and hot water?
If so then your electric use will be very high in winter.
Do you have gas?

Hello, only using electricity as mentioned in the first line.

Even in the Summer months, we are using 500-600 kwh - which still seems excessive. I know every home is different, but comparing my usage to colleagues and friends who have bigger families in bigger houses, they are using between 200-350 kwh right now in the winter.

Yes, 200-300kWh per month is about normal for those that don't use electric for heating. But your friends will also have a gas/oil bill which you don't have.
Heating your hot water with electricity would likely account for the difference.

Thank you. Would you recommend always using the boost function to heat the water from cold when we need it? Or is using the timer more efficient since it keeps it ticking over rather than trying to heat a whole tank of cold water?

If not using E7 it is best to either put it on an hour or so before you use it. Or time it so it comes on for morning showers and time it for evening baths/washing up etc

MWT

1moneyspendingexpert1 said:

Thank you for your reply. I'm currently at work, but I have this image of my meter still on my phone, as I take a picture so that I can submit it on the Octopus website. The number 2 is the day rate, then it changes to number 1 for the night rate, which has remained the same number since moving there 3 years ago.

Thanks, I had that same type of meter, but it also used a clock of the type I showed to control the switching between day/night, but eventually the clock failed leaving it stuck on 'Night' in my case, so do have a look again when you are home and see if there is anything similar nearby, as the failure to switch to night rate is costing you money right now, and has been since you moved in if you use any form of heating during the night rate hours...

Veteransaver

Possibly, depends on the split of use and the tariff. But ops question was around electricity usage,.and not cost specifically 

Scot_39

Firstly

If you do not have a functioning night rate meter you don't want to be on that tariff.

You could be paying 37p for everything rather than single rate of 27p.

Edit I suppose you could also be paying c16p if got stuck on night rate - but either way it's a reportable fault - that Octopus obligated to fix.  Anything over 2 hours on regional nominal timings iirc. 

Dubious re what you have been told re meter upgrade - many fixed time of use old dual rate - single with external rate timer, single with external rate and restricted supply switch timer (including simpler rts) and dual meter  - metering can be replaced by a modern 4 or for restricted supply (only powered say 7 hours daily)  home wiring 5 port smart smets2 e7 meter.  Would you be willing to post a piccy or 2 of meters and meter cabinet wiring - serial numbers redacted  ?  It's actually what they were designed to do.

So you might want to push again to get the metering updated - you are likely to need landlords agreement - or given how you may currently be biasing your use simply ask for now to be billed at single rate if being only billed at higher rate c37p. (I assume the single register is recording all energy used)

Your summer base load of 500-600kWh seems very high.

My own can be as low as 150-200kWh in summer months.  Winter - with a real cold snap in weeks rather than few days can more than treble that.

So the jump to 1100 from 500 isn't that excessive - except last month here at least was very mild - so I used c30% less energy on heating than last.

3 washing rather than 1 - could easily double my 150-200 that to say 300-400kWh though.

My bills were a lot higher when 2 lived here.

1.2kW heater set to 22 - what does it get room too ?

How many hours actually drawing that 1.2kW for ?

Hot water tank - if that's heating the whole of upstairs in coldest months - that suggests a lossy tank - as in my case would need 5-10kWh plus in coldest winter days  to heat a few rooms even to c15 let alone others idea of comfortable.

How hot are the rooms ?

A modern hw tank might only lose 1-2kWh daily from nominal 60C depending on volume  - I would say in most homes if not all - not enough to heat all of upstairs on a cold day.

If you get a full day for 3 inc showers / baths etc out of 2 hours on timer - that would be only 6kWh(*) typically  - I'd say was good - but that wont be long showers at a high temperature / flow rate or regular full baths..

(*) As you say only heat for 2 hours - that would be c6kWh max as immersion element typically 3kW rated.  But many homes with dual rate power e.g. E7 built with tanks with 2 elements - so are you sure not mixing an off peak element driven just be restricted supply and a timed peak element.

That 6kWh would be c180kWh - so third of your summer use.


My tank uses c2-3kWh in winter - but that doesn't include HW for shower as mine electric.

To heat my 2 beds and bathroom upstairs, kitchen, halls etc to only 15C costs more than to heat my living room to 17 - and in total just heating  maybe averages 10-15kWh daily in mild to cold winter - but easily peaks c25-30kWh in beast from east type cold snaps when sub zero day and sub -4 nights when prop open loft to protect pipes.

My desktop PCs aren't used for gaming - one is quite an old i7 so not most efficient - but both use dedicated graphic cards - the power packs are rated c500W iirc

My nephews latest gaming rig - maybe 18m-2 yrs old - fitted with 1kW power module - the 850W he had in old he said was borderline  - in either case the PCs a decent sized space heater if gpus being thrashed.

(Those little plug fan heaters only 500W)

That and his 2 monitors adds up to a lot of heat - over hours of use some nights.

You might want to spend £20 on a couple of Tapo smart metering plugs for the fire and the PC kit  - to get exactly how much power they are pulling.

Then move onto other high power devices even if fairly short term use it adds up  - and even lower power devices if used long term - old multiple bulb filament or halogen lighting etc. 

1moneyspendingexpert1

Scot_39 said:

Firstly

If you do not have a functioning night rate meter you don't want to be on that tariff.

You could be paying 37p for everything rather than single rate of 27p.

Dubious re what you have been told re meter upgrade - many fixed time of use old dual rate - single with external rate timer, single with external rate and restricted supply switch timer (including simpler rts) and dual meter  - metering can be replaced by a modern 4 or for restricted supply (only powered say 7 hours daily)  home wiring 5 port smart smets2 e7 meter.  Would you be willing to post a piccy or 2 of meters and meter cabinet wiring - serial numbers redacted  ?  It's actually what they were designed to do.

So you might want to push again to get the metering updated - you are likely to need landlords agreement - or ask for now to be billed at single rate if being only billed at higher rate c37p. (I assume the single register is recording all energy used)

Your summer base load of 500-600kWh seems very high.

My own can be as low as 150-200kWh in summer months.  Winter - with a real cold snap in weeks rather than few days can more than treble that.

So the jump to 1100 from 500 isn't that excessive - except last month here at least was very mild - so I used c30% less energy on heating than last.

3 washing rather than 1 - could easily double that to say 300kWh.

1.2kW heater set to 22 - what does it get room too ?

How many hours actually drawing that 1.2kW for ?

Hot water tank - if that's heating the whole of upstairs in coldest months - that suggests a laggy tank - as in my case would need 5-10kWh plus in coldest winter days  to heat a few rooms even to c15 let alone others idea of comfortable.

How hot are the rooms ?

A modern hw tank might only lose 1-2kWh daily from nominal 60C depending on volume  - I would say in most homes if not all - not enough to heat all of upstairs on a cold day.

If you get a full day for 3 inc showers / baths etc out of 2 hours on timer - that would be only 6kWh(*) typically  - I'd say was good - but that wont be long showers at a high temperature / flow rate or regular full baths..

(*) As you say only heat for 2 hours - that would be c6kWh max as immersion element typically 3kW rated.  But many homes with dual rate power e.g. E7 built with tanks with 2 elements - so are you sure not mixing an off peak element driven just be restricted supply and a timed peak element.

That 6kWh would be c180kWh - so third of your summer use.


My tank uses c2-3kWh in winter - but that doesn't include HW for shower as mine electric.

To heat my 2 beds and bathroom upstairs, kitchen, halls etc to only 15C costs more than to heat my living room to 17 - and in total just heating  maybe averages 10-15kWh daily in mild to cold winter - but easily peaks c25-30kWh in beast from east type cold snaps when sub zero day and sub -4 nights when prop open loft to protect pipes.

My desktop PCs aren't used for gaming - one is quite an old i7 so not most efficient - but both use dedicated graphic cards - the power packs are rated c500W iirc

My nephews latest gaming rig - maybe 18m-2 yrs old - fitted with 1kW power module - the 850W he had in old he said was borderline  - in either case the PCs a decent sized space heater if gpus being thrashed.

(Those little plug fan heaters only 500W)

That and his 2 monitors adds up to a lot of heat - over hours of use some nights.

You might want to spend £20 on a couple of Tapo smart metering plugs for the fire and the PC kit  - to get exactly how much power they are pulling.

Then move onto other high power devices even if fairly short term use it adds up  - and even lower power devices if used long term - old multiple bulb filament or halogen lighting etc. 

Hi Scot,

Thank you for your detailed reply, it is enlightening.

The general advice I am getting from this thread is to question Octopus again regarding the tariff I am on.

I could be wrong, as it was over a year ago, but last time I asked them (Bulb at the time) for a msart meter they said I couldn't have one because my meter had a blue wire coming from it, which meant it wasn't compatible. As mentioned in my OP, things may have changed now. I did use their appointment system for a smart meter, but unfortunately it said there is no upcoming availability in my area for smart meter installations...

The infrared heater goes into a passive mode once the room reaches 22 degrees, so I guess it is only drawing that power until the room reaches the set temperature, then again once it starts to drop. We turn this on at around 5-6pm and it stays on until heading upstairs for the night.

I haven't taken temperature readings of the upstairs rooms, but they are always comfortable temp even in winter. This could be a combination of the bar heater heating the atmosphere from downstairs, the water tank, and the gaming computer, which is fitted with a 1000w power supply and two monitors.

The metering plugs are a good idea thank you.

Most of the light fittings in the house are out dated, but as it's a rented property I am only in control of the bulbs that go in them.

Krakkkers

If your hot water tank is heating the house then its poorly insulated.

Scot_39

And again re fire vs central air - do you have a model type.

Only ever came across personally in US rentals - and some were hybrid heat from gas, cool by electric , others all electric  and company picked up bills.

But houses in a local estate had non storage electric versions very expensive to run cf gas at the time - so many owners fitted conventional GCH.

Some actually contain a heat store.

So in theory chargeable at least part of the time at c16p - vs you drawing power at c28p SR or your quoted day / peak c37p.

Gerry1

Follow the thin wire from the Ampy meter.  It should go to a timeswitch which is probably stuck.

Scot_39

Ah just spotted your meter photo too - an old Ampy 523  ?  Tge 5235 series was not uncommon and 52355d a dual rate metering device - so later digits  ?


They were bough out by Landys+Gyr (spelling ?) in late 00s.  And they sold same meter  under a 1xx series for a while.


In either case as cannot see the full model number (but can see the serial no so you may want to delete, redact etc )  or the wiring not sure what the blue wire comment means.

But it could be a reference to the rate selection wire - which on one of their common models - the 5235D was either switch to live or switch to neutral according to select peak vs off peak rate - guess from spec via external timer..

Or for that matter a pulse output wire on the 5235B model.

https://www.solartradesales.co.uk/Cache/Downloads/L-and-G-5235-User-ManualBrochure-info.pdf

It's also certified 2008 -  pdf states 5235 series had 20 Yr cert so still 4 yrs remaining.

But they might have had true dual rate meters - some with on board timers.

So can you confirm full model no or a piccy showing wiring / any timer devices in meter cabinet ?