Small Claims for Wedding services not received

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Where you breach the contract (for what ever reasons) the party suffering the breach (florist and make up person in this instance) is entitled to retain either costs or loss of profit. 

50% from the florist was probably worth accepting, a third back from the make up person might have been reasonable, hard to say what their mark up would be when you consider transport and product.

When seeking loss of profit rather than costs that should be mitigated by finding another customer if possible, time between cancelling and service due would be a factor here. 

There is generally an obligation to mitigate losses, I'm not sure if a court would expect you to accept what was offered and then seek the extra, if any. 

I can't comment on whether or not you are the consumer, the CRA defines a consumer as 

“Consumer” means an individual acting for purposes that are wholly or mainly outside that individual's trade, business, craft or profession.

which obviously applies and whilst I understand your daughter would be receiving the benefit under the contract I would have thought if you paying for the flowers and make up were a wedding gift you would be the consumer (often when people ask on here about consumer rights on gifts they are advised rights lie with the purchaser rather that the gift recipient, Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 aside).

As you have an open claim with an upcoming hearing i would suggest some professional advice, CAB is free but accuracy and depth of advice can vary, a local solicitor might give a free half hour to gauge the situation. 

I would say you are entitled to something but probably that you should have accepted the offers of 50%/32% from the traders to begin with  

Philip_Jackman

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

Ultimately your claim was dismissed on a technicality which doesn't mean the make up person wasn't required to refund (in part).

If I buy my wife a present online, even if addressed to hear by name on the postage label, the billing address and email address would be mine so it should be clear I made the purchase.

With a wedding if your daughter contacted the make up person, made all the arrangements, gave her name and contact details and you simply pressed the online button to pay then it could well be you are not consumer. This kind of transaction playing out like that is probably more typical for a wedding as you are well meaning parent and your daughter desires everything as she has no doubt pictured since being 6 and playing dress up  

The unfortunate option is to start again with your daughter making the claim. 

Did the make up person present this argument as a defence or is it one the court came up with on their own?

If the court came up with it then the case against the florist may go the same way, if the make up person used it as a defence perhaps the florist won't think of it, perhaps the booking with the florist was made in a different manner.

It is very difficult to advise on such things as whilst there is legislation, things are not always clear cut and it can come down to who articulates themselves best. 

I appreciate you are deflated but I think you have to make a personal choice whether to have another go with the make up person and a personal choice of whether to continue with the florist, possibly with professional advice, or drop that matter too  

DullGreyGuy

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

The legal system has to balance the rights of both the claimant and defendant. The legal system is also very precise and people without a solicitor tend to be fairly sloppy.  Hence you get a lot of claims against Tesco Croydon (or whatever) which get dismissed because thats not a legal entity and you do precisely have to identify the defendant as its only fair to them to be able to prepare a defence etc. 

The issue you hit was similar, the payer isn't automatically contractual party... I can sign a contract but ask the Mrs gets her card out faster than me, I am still the contracted party and therefore would be the one and only one entitled to make a claim for breach of contract. 

As already discussed, your daughters consumer rights having wanted to pull out from the contract that didnt have any cancellation rights was for a partial refund because the vendor will have sustained a loss of profit at a minimum however is likely to have saved some elements on travel/materials etc and so not a full loss. On paper the offers made dont seem unreasonable given clearly the flowers person has a larger element in materials than a hair person etc. 

The courts told you on the first attempt that you had no claim, it was your choice to attempt to appeal it rather than doing what you should have which is have your daughter reissue or, more sensibly, accept the reasonable offer that was on the table already. 

Aylesbury_Duck

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

It's a shame you didn't come here earlier, and people would have advised how to best navigate the matter.  But fundamentally, consumer rights weren't undermined here.  You had what on the face of it looked like reasonable offers from each supplier, and chose to reject them.  There may have been scope for negotiating one or both upwards, but we'll never know.

I'm not surprised that a business that made a reasonable offer two years ago, had it rejected and then had legal action commenced against it, has decided to engage no further.  Are you?

Your frustration is misplaced.  It's not the legal system that's led to this, it's the way you handled it.

born_again

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

You are forgetting that they have now incurred further costs in having to defend the claim.

Sounds like both retailers were being more than generous with refunds offered, given the cancelation must have been within 7 days of the event.
While florist could cancel their order & mitigate some of the loss. There is no way that the hair/makeup could do the same. As theirs is all based on their personal service & no way that they could get another booking in such a short time.

As others. Time to take a step back, forget about the money & just enjoy the memories of the wedding day.

diego_94

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

Sorry for saying this, but its not the legal system that is the problem here, unfortunately it is you. You cancelled the contract, yet you want a full refund? I think both parties were very reasonable to you when they didnt have to be, and now you are paying the price. If I were them I would do exactly what the make up artist has done and now offer you nothing.

Vectis

Philip_Jackman said:

Thanks for your comments. My daughter has now had a reply from the hair and makeup stylist. As my claim against her was dismissed she now considers that she owe neither myself nor my daughter any refund, 0%. A big thankyou to the legal system for completely undermining any and all consumer rights.

But, it was you who cancelled it, and at the last minute? And you who initiated legal action against both parties, even though you'd had reasonable offers?

It would be extremely rare, and extremely generous, of suppliers of services in these situations to give a full refund.

Of course, you could get your daughter to take the suppliers to Court, and she might win, but the consensus of opinion is that both suppliers acted reasonably with their offers of refunds, and maybe you and your daughter should take that on-board?

Arunmor

"Success in dealing with people depends on a sympathetic grasp of the other person’s viewpoint."  (Dale Carnegie)

MattMattMattUK

Arunmor said:

"Success in dealing with people depends on a sympathetic grasp of the other person’s viewpoint."  (Dale Carnegie)

Or a gun (Al Capone)