Suspected structural movement - where to start

bollymoo

I have owned (mortgage) my Victorian terraced home for 14 years - this isn't about a house purchase or sale (yet).
Some potentially concerning cracks have appeared around the join between the later addition/extension and the original house. 
What's the best way to investigate this - to go straight to the insurers? Or to get an independent structural engineer out first?
It may not be anything too serious - we don't know at this stage. 

I'm loath to risk getting insurance involved if this might turn out not be a problem at all, or something that could be fixed fairly straightforwardly, and could make future insurance/selling difficult.

Independent structural engineer will cost around £400 to come out and report. Insurance has an excess of around £1000 I think. 

So - best to get insurer's involved at this stage of possible concern, or get advice separately on whether or not it's a real problem first?

FreeBear

Some photos of these cracks will help.

Often, it is simply a case of differential movement between old & new. If these cracks are hairline in the mortar joints, they shouldn't be anything too concerning

weeg

I'd get an engineer out. (But I would say that - I am one!) And, depending on where you are in the country that sounds pretty expensive. Might be worth getting another quite 

stuart45

weeg said:

I'd get an engineer out. (But I would say that - I am one!) And, depending on where you are in the country that sounds pretty expensive. Might be worth getting another quite 

What would you charge?

bollymoo

weeg said:

I'd get an engineer out. (But I would say that - I am one!) And, depending on where you are in the country that sounds pretty expensive. Might be worth getting another quite 

I've been quoted £375-400. Most structural engineers wouldn't come out for a small domestic issue. 

Out of interest, what would be the benefit of getting an engineer out first rather than getting the insurance involved, in your opinion?

weeg

We charge £275 for a local look-see inspection with no follow up. More if it needs travel time or formal reporting. That's in central Scotland.

You do need to find someone who does domestic work. Findanengineer.com is a good place to start. Small practices are your best bet.

I think if you go direct to an engineer you get to pick them, you avoid having to deal with insurers and it's probably less hassle. And, of course, if there isn't an issue you don't have to pay for report writing time.

Mind you, the last one I did for a nice bottle of gin! But I know the guy.

stuart45

FreeBear said:

Some photos of these cracks will help.

I'd do this first.

bollymoo

weeg said:

We charge £275 for a local look-see inspection with no follow up. More if it needs travel time or formal reporting. That's in central Scotland.

You do need to find someone who does domestic work. Findanengineer.com is a good place to start. Small practices are your best bet.

I think if you go direct to an engineer you get to pick them, you avoid having to deal with insurers and it's probably less hassle. And, of course, if there isn't an issue you don't have to pay for report writing time.

Mind you, the last one I did for a nice bottle of gin! But I know the guy.

Thanks - I didn't know about that website, and have found a couple of other structural engineers to try.

bollymoo

I've been in touch with a certified structural engineer (CEng MIStructE) by email and sent them photos. Their response is:
"There is definitely some degree of structural movement and in the hierarchy of reasons for this kind of possible structural problem we would look at the possibility of a problem with the drains or water supply first."

They then suggest further investigations including a drain survey and a local soil investigation. These would be at additional cost to an inspection, but the engineer says they would "be part of any claim against your insurance" and "whether to put [insurers] on notice is something that we would only advise if there is a definite probability of an ensuing claim for repair work."

This makes me think that I might as well just go straight to the insurers - as further investigations plus inspection, plus a formal signed report from the engineers is already likely to be over £1000. And I don't know whether I would be able to claim this retrospectively from insurance - I would expect they would need to be informed beforehand at a minimum.

BUT - the engineers then say that "once a claim is settled that part of any repair/underpinning is taken out of your insurance policy and you cannot claim again for that particular problem - any redress is with the builder or designer of the repair - litigation to prove whose fault it is - very, very expensive" and recommend "Hence our PI insurance and cost for a signed (stage 2) report is much higher than that of a bullet point summary."

So, given that there does on the face of it seem to be concern and a need for investigations around structural movement, I would appreciate experience and advice on the balance of benefits and risks for a) going direct to insurers or b) going further with the engineers first. The engineer's warning appears to be that if the insurers' builders don't manage to sufficiently resolve the problem it might be hard to redress, but if we go direct with the engineers Stage 2 report (obviously much more expensive for us) we could claim against their insurance? 

Annemos

Just a couple of things I am noticing, bollymoo.


The Structural Engineering bodies these days, say that only 5% of properties that subside will require underpinning. 


Also, when one does an Insurance Claim for building repairs, the repairs have to be Lasting and Effective. That means, they must last for many years.

If the Insurance Company sends out their own Contractors and the repairs fail or are not found to be Lasting and Effective, then the Claim would be re-opened again for another look. With the adjudication of the Ombudsman, if there was any argument over the cause. (For example, is the damage related to the original claim, or is it in another unrelated area?)  

If you use your own Contractors and the Insurance pays you a cash amount for that, then any work they do would be your own responsibility. (The Insurance Company will not stand behind any contractors that they did not employ themselves.) 


If you log a Subsidence claim with your Insurer, then that has ongoing ramifications for your property. I am sure you would also have to tell an Insurer, if there has been an underpinning.

I will leave others to comment, on whether because you already have a Structural Report now, whether you would need to tell your Insurance Company anyway?? 



Click in here on the pink line that says "Repairing the damage - Buildings" 

https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/businesses/complaints-deal/insurance/home-buildings-insurance/settling-home-insurance-claims