Cost of care for the elderly

AskAsk

Savvy_Sue said:

AskAsk said:

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

Personal pensions are not compulsory: if you don't earn enough then you have to choose to opt in. 

And with the rise of the gig economy, and more and more people working several part-time jobs, fewer people are automatically opted in.

Plus, you can opt out at any time.

Increasing numbers of people feel they can't afford a pension, never mind future care home fees.

there are too many people who can save towards their old age and they don't because they know that they will get the funds from the state.  i think everyone should be forced to save towards their old age.  at the moment, people who can afford to do so don't always do and look for ways to avoid paying, which is quite easy to do if you plan far ahead.

AskAsk

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

Pollycat

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

AskAsk

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

giving people the option will mean most people won't want to do it.  why would you when you can get funding from the state?  it would be better to give your money to your children and grandchildren and get the state to pay for your care.  there needs to be change as it is getting too expensive and i don't think increasing tax is going to be very favourably accepted, particularly in the age of cost of living crisis.

Exodi

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

It's clear you disagree with @AskAsk, but do you have a better suggestion?

I'd hope you can accept that the current situation of pensioners 'gifting' everything they own to their kids or racing through their savings as quickly as possible, so that they don't have a penny to their names at the point they might need care is not tenable.

I_Love_comps mom is paying over £8k per month... she's subsidising all of the people that can't pay (whether deliberately or otherwise). Unfortunately, we see threads about people trying to avoid future care home costs all the time.

Either we prevent people spending their own money (which is not practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone), we allocate an individual pot of money towards it that people have no choice over, allocate a public pot via increased taxation, tighten DoA checks, or ???

I'm not a big fan of general taxation because it's just more of the same falling back on ol' trusty of 'just make the workers pay for it' - and I think after a cumulative 19.5% state pension increase over the past two years (which I suspect workers could only have dreamed of) while facing rent/mortgage increases that would make most grown men cry, workers are feeling less than generous at the moment.

Tightening up on DoA checks would help, but I'm not sure how much is realistically possible there.

AskAsk

Exodi said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

It's clear you disagree with @AskAsk, but do you have a better suggestion?

I'd hope you can accept that the current situation of pensioners 'gifting' everything they own to their kids or racing through their savings as quickly as possible, so that they don't have a penny to their names at the point they might need care is not tenable.

I_Love_comps mom is paying over £8k per month... she's subsidising all of the people that can't pay (whether intentionally or not). Unfortunately, we see threads about people trying to avoid future care home costs all the time.

Either we prevent people spending their own money (which is not practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone), we allocate an individual pot of money towards it that people have no choice over, allocate a public pot via increased taxation, tighten DoA checks, or ???

I'm not a big fan of general taxation because it's just more of the same falling back on ol' trusty of 'just make the workers pay for it' - and I think after a cumulative 19.5% state pension increase over the past two years (which I suspect workers could only have dreamed of) while facing rent/mortgage increases that would make most grown men cry, workers are feeling less than generous at the moment.

Tightening up on DoA checks would help, but I'm not sure how much is realistically possible there.

tightening DoA checks would certainly help but increasing tax or NI won't as the government has a habit of raiding the tax funds for their own political agenda or crisis or views on funding.  I think it should be protected for the individual that has saved the pot as you shouldn't have to give it to anyone else. like your own pension pot.  there should be tax incentives for people to save for their care, in a similar way that you get tax incentives to build your pension pot.

until there is an individual plan in place, no one wants to save up for others.  why would you when others spend their money on expensive cruises and trip of a lifetime and gifting their money away, as you are subsiding them and not getting any benefit for being thrifty and careful with your money.

pollypenny

Giving all your money to your kids or spending all deliberately means the tax payer will pay for your care. That means the likes of me. However, it also means the likes of you - as if everyone blows their savings tax will have to go up. 

Savvy_Sue

Pollycat said:

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

I'm not sure I'd hold my breath for any government coming up with a better scheme, but the only way to make such a thing compulsory would be via tax and National Insurance, so that wouldn't be popular.  

Apart from anything else, any scheme outside the tax regime would need to make allowances for those with a life-limiting condition - in the same way that it used to be compulsory to buy an annuity at age 75, even if it was clear you weren't going to see 76, making it very poor value. 

You could possibly introduce a scheme like the current pension scheme, where your employer HAS to opt you in once you hit a certain payment level / age, but I feel you'd have to retain the right for people to opt out. 

And once again, the people who will 'fall down the cracks' are the low paid, often women, holding down multiple low paid jobs. 

And can I remind us all that it's a tiny proportion of the UK population who ends up in a care home? And wouldn't you know it, more women than men ... I'm not sure there's much data about who ends up needing care at home, and that would be a tricksy one: my parents had a cleaner and a gardener in later life, which they organised and paid for themselves, and without which they'd have struggled to manage, but never any personal care. 

Pollycat

Exodi said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

It's clear you disagree with @AskAsk, but do you have a better suggestion?

I'd hope you can accept that the current situation of pensioners 'gifting' everything they own to their kids or racing through their savings as quickly as possible, so that they don't have a penny to their names at the point they might need care is not tenable.

No, I don't have a better suggestion.
I prefer not to put forward a suggestion at all than propose a crackpot suggestion that you yourself call "not practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone".

As I've previously said:

Pollycat said:

I am posting purely from my own situation.

Of course I think it wrong to gift money to avoid care home fees.
I've said so on many similar threads.

Savvy_Sue said:

And can I remind us all that it's a tiny proportion of the UK population who ends up in a care home? And wouldn't you know it, more women than men ... I'm not sure there's much data about who ends up needing care at home, and that would be a tricksy one: my parents had a cleaner and a gardener in later life, which they organised and paid for themselves, and without which they'd have struggled to manage, but never any personal care. 

You don't need to remind me.
I know that.
I made the same point up-thread to AskAsk (who seems to think that everyone will need funded care of some sort at some point).

AskAsk said:
with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

Exodi

Pollycat said:

Exodi said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Pollycat said:

AskAsk said:

Lindagreenacre said:

Think that I need to go on expensive holidays.  

lol, exactly this!  people spends thousands on expensive cruises when they retire.  time to see the world and enjoy the money they have worked for and saved up all their working life.  then, some years down the line, they need care and if only they had not gone on those expensive holidays and blew all that money.  so now, the rest of us have to pay for this......  things need to change as the rest of us can't afford to pay for care for the elderly any more as it is becoming a crisis with people living longer and so inevitably ending up in care.

So what do you suggest?
That people who have worked all their lives (as I and my husband have) are not allowed to go on holidays in case they need the money to pay for their care that may or may not be required?

Not everyone will end up going into a care home.

with people living longer, care is inevitable.  you may not go into a care home but you may need care visits at home, which is also funded by the council.

at the moment there is no requirement for people to save towards old age, and i think it is about time that people are forced to do so.  it is not possible to expect younger people to continue to pay the bills for the elderly because they have spent all their money on holidays or gifted it to their children and grandchildren.

I have said before, there needs to be a compulsory plan, like the personal pension, where everyone needs to contribute and that can used later on for care needs.  if you don't need to use the pot, you can use it for funeral expense or your relation can inherit it.  At the moment, the public purse pays for everything, and people do not have to contribute if their savings or income are below a certain threshold at the time.  They may have used up a lot of money by that time, that they wouldn't otherwise have done if they thought they needed to save for care.

I am posting purely from my own situation.
Having had a reasonably well paid job (in IT), I've paid a load of NI contributions over my working life.
I've not taken any benefits out, not even child benefit.
My council tax has gone towards funding for schools - which I've not benefited from.
I have a private pension together with my state pension.
That funds my lifestyle, which includes several holidays each year.
I've saved for my retirement - so I've saved for my old age even though there was/is no requirement to do so.
Nobody forced me to do it.

There is no certainty that I will need care at home. If there is, I will be able to fund it myself.

I have no children or grandchildren to gift my money to.

The'public purse' pays nothing for me.

You're banging the drum at the wrong person.

when i reply to your comments, i am not aiming the comments at you but the population as a general concept.  in the past people didn't live as long and so the majority of people did not need to go into a care home before they passed away.  the population is living longer and we aren't designed to live this long, so although we are still alive, our bodies and brains have often shut down and we are living on borrowed time with care and medical advance.

as more and more people fall into this category, social care is going to become unaffordable to the nation as a whole as it is the young people that will need to pay more taxes to fund these social care.  council tax includes a large proportion for social care.  I just don't think this funding model is going to be possible for much longer and soon the government will look into ways of getting people to fund more for themselves.

this may be why they will start to be stricter with people giving away assets before they retire and changing the rules on gifts.

I would object to being told I must save towards potential care home fees.

I hope any government will come up with a better scheme than that.

It's clear you disagree with @AskAsk, but do you have a better suggestion?

I'd hope you can accept that the current situation of pensioners 'gifting' everything they own to their kids or racing through their savings as quickly as possible, so that they don't have a penny to their names at the point they might need care is not tenable.

No, I don't have a better suggestion.
I prefer not to put forward a suggestion at all than propose a crackpot suggestion that you yourself call "not practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone".

You've misquoted what I said:

Exodi said:

Either we prevent people spending their own money (which is not practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone), we allocate an individual pot of money towards it that people have no choice over, allocate a public pot via increased taxation, tighten DoA checks, or ???

So of the options I mentioned (but formatted better) were:

1. Prevent people from being able to spend large chunks of their own money (effectively preventing people from 'gifting' any significant amount of money to children or going on multiple expensive cruises) - this is not what AskAsk suggested or was being discussed and what I said would not be practical, reasonable or agreeable to anyone. I included it for completeness.

2. Have people contribute to an individual pot, much like how a private pension works - which is what AskAsk suggested with rules about how discretionary it could be (because clearly a lot of people would prefer to opt out to give the money to their children, and have the taxpayer foot the bill for their care as happens currently).

3. Have people contribute to a national pot, much like how the state pension works - which isn't popular, as we saw with Boris Johnson toying with this idea including a sloppy implementation where originally young people were expected to pay for pensioners care through increased NI, but pensioners would not. I think after a cumulative 19.5% increase to the state pension over the past 2 years, workers are less sympathetic to pensioners at the moment. Yes some pensioners are poor, but more are not.

4. Tightening DoA checks I think most of us could get behind, but I've no idea how much can be achieved here. This might be one of those ideas that sounds good on paper but doesn't achieve much more in practice.

5. Any other ideas people had.

Pollycat said:

Of course I think it wrong to gift money to avoid care home fees.
I've said so on many similar threads.

It does appear we're all on the same page though, I'm personally getting quite fatigued by seeing the same threads week in week out trying to circumvent DoA restrictions and force the taxpayer to fund their parents care so they can realise the maximum inheritance possible. No shame in these threads as people perform the mental gymnastics required to convince themselves that it is somehow not fair to pay for your own care, because [people on benefits], [foreigners], etc.

If everyone with the original means were to pay for their own care, I_Love_comps mum wouldn't need to be paying over £8k per month. I understand we are in this endless feedback loop where 'costs are high because people avoid paying for their own care' and 'people avoid paying for their own care because costs are high' but councils are on their knees and something has to give.