Death of tenant- who is responsible?

artyboy

KxMx said:

They will want you to deal with it all as it's easier for them. You don't actually have to though, in reality. 

The problem though is that we see on here that it's more than just them asking - they try and make out that you have a legal responsibility, often in a pretty aggressive way. They rely on people's ignorance of the law and also the fact that they are probably not thinking as clearly as normal due to bereavement.

Frankly some of the specific cases I've heard are disgraceful behaviour, and it's really just a question of whether this is individual council employees going rogue, or if it's official policy to lie to and strong-arm bereaved relatives...

Smalltownhypocrite

Hoarder houses pop up in auctions fairly often, usually auctioned by council. 

I assume they are either owned by the council but housed a hoarders who have died or moved into care or have been sold/given to the council through buy back type scheme after a death by family who can't cope with clearing it.

Like a bank repossession they attempt to make money back through the sale of the property, its the buyers job to clear it and fix structural damage.

Jude57

I don't expect this comment to be popular but I feel I must side with the Council Officers responsible for Public Health funerals and for clearing properties. I helped a comfortably off neighbour clear some of her hoarded possessions from her social housing flat in 2018 and the cost then from the private house clearance company was quoted as £1,800. On the day, we got to lunchtime and a very large van had been loaded to weight capacity, a second large van arrived and was filled to maximum weight. There was still the two bedrooms to deal with and it was a case of either giving up or agreeing to pay another £1,200 to finish the job so she decided to go ahead. The workers were fantastic, worked extremely quickly and took up carpets and underlay, removing everything down two floors, mostly using the stairs instead of the lift. They also had a deep cleaning team who followed them in but as there wasn't much of the working day left and it would have cost more to get them back the next day, we decided to finish the cleaning ourselves. So £3,000 to get to that point.

A very basic direct cremation costs anywhere from £895 to £1,200 so, say £1,000 as a middle figure. That's £4,000 to deal with one funeral and clearance. My city council deals with a couple of hundred Public Health funerals each year, but say 150. If each of those also requires house clearance, even if it's not a hoarded home, let's say £1500 each, so a minimum of £2,500 x 150 = £375,000 per year, as a conservative estimate.

Local authorities have a fiduciary duty to minimise their expenditure and unfortunately, there are those who would simply walk away from funding a funeral and house clearance of a deceased when in fact there are funds available. My neighbour even said that the Council would sort everything out when she dies and I reminded her that she can afford to pay for her own funeral so why should it fall to the public purse?

I can certainly agree that when there is simply no estate, the local authority certainly should step in and, in the case of social housing tenancies MUST step in to clear the property to renovate (more public expenditure) to ready it for letting to a new tenant. However, I'd equally certainly expect those local authorities to make every effort to satisfy themselves that there really is no estate available and if that upsets family members of the deceased, that's unfortunate but necessary.

Finally, and perhaps interestingly, I recently watched a film called Still Life, starring Eddie Marsan as the council officer who deals with such deaths. It's based on an Italian original which probably explains why it's so inaccurate on the mechanics of the English process but nontheless, it's a lovely film and actually quite uplifting. I recommend it. It's on ITVX.

Dannydee333

Just wanted to pop in and say you are not financially responsible for anything. It's only if you were the executor of the will/estate.

You don't have to do a damn thing nor do you have to pay for a damn thing. Return the loan

kimwp

Jude57 said:

I don't expect this comment to be popular but I feel I must side with the Council Officers responsible for Public Health funerals and for clearing properties. I helped a comfortably off neighbour clear some of her hoarded possessions from her social housing flat in 2018 and the cost then from the private house clearance company was quoted as £1,800. On the day, we got to lunchtime and a very large van had been loaded to weight capacity, a second large van arrived and was filled to maximum weight. There was still the two bedrooms to deal with and it was a case of either giving up or agreeing to pay another £1,200 to finish the job so she decided to go ahead. The workers were fantastic, worked extremely quickly and took up carpets and underlay, removing everything down two floors, mostly using the stairs instead of the lift. They also had a deep cleaning team who followed them in but as there wasn't much of the working day left and it would have cost more to get them back the next day, we decided to finish the cleaning ourselves. So £3,000 to get to that point.

A very basic direct cremation costs anywhere from £895 to £1,200 so, say £1,000 as a middle figure. That's £4,000 to deal with one funeral and clearance. My city council deals with a couple of hundred Public Health funerals each year, but say 150. If each of those also requires house clearance, even if it's not a hoarded home, let's say £1500 each, so a minimum of £2,500 x 150 = £375,000 per year, as a conservative estimate.

Local authorities have a fiduciary duty to minimise their expenditure and unfortunately, there are those who would simply walk away from funding a funeral and house clearance of a deceased when in fact there are funds available. My neighbour even said that the Council would sort everything out when she dies and I reminded her that she can afford to pay for her own funeral so why should it fall to the public purse?

I can certainly agree that when there is simply no estate, the local authority certainly should step in and, in the case of social housing tenancies MUST step in to clear the property to renovate (more public expenditure) to ready it for letting to a new tenant. However, I'd equally certainly expect those local authorities to make every effort to satisfy themselves that there really is no estate available and if that upsets family members of the deceased, that's unfortunate but necessary.

Finally, and perhaps interestingly, I recently watched a film called Still Life, starring Eddie Marsan as the council officer who deals with such deaths. It's based on an Italian original which probably explains why it's so inaccurate on the mechanics of the English process but nontheless, it's a lovely film and actually quite uplifting. I recommend it. It's on ITVX.

There's a difference between saying that the deceased's estate is responsible and saying the next of kin are responsible.

deannagone

The OP has already clearly said that there is no money in the estate (just debts) and they have no money either.  So the advice given is on that basis.., and useful to the OP who needed reassurance.

Section62

deannagone said:

The OP has already clearly said that there is no money in the estate (just debts) and they have no money either.  So the advice given is on that basis.., and useful to the OP who needed reassurance.

It isn't uncommon for hoarders to also accumulate cash and/or other valuables which the LA find during the clearance.  Not specifically referring to the OP's case, but where family haven't been in touch for a long while it is quite possible the position of the estate isn't as bad as the family believe, provided the LA take care to check for cash/valuables rather than skipping everything, and do a thorough investigation of the person's estate.

One thing to note is that unless items have been specifically willed to an individual, the contents of the property are part of the estate and if this is disclaimed by the family, the LA is within its rights to sell anything they find in order to pay for the clearance and other arrangements that need to be made.  Therefore family members need to be extremely careful about letting themselves into the property to remove items of sentimental value, because they are not theirs to take.

Jude57 adds some valuable context to the thread and their points are well made.  There are consequences (for family/friends) of disclaiming the estate and leaving it all up to the local authority to deal with, it isn't a free pass, and is an option which is not necessarily without distress and trauma for loved ones.

missje

Section62 said:

deannagone said:

The OP has already clearly said that there is no money in the estate (just debts) and they have no money either.  So the advice given is on that basis.., and useful to the OP who needed reassurance.

It isn't uncommon for hoarders to also accumulate cash and/or other valuables which the LA find during the clearance.  Not specifically referring to the OP's case, but where family haven't been in touch for a long while it is quite possible the position of the estate isn't as bad as the family believe, provided the LA take care to check for cash/valuables rather than skipping everything, and do a thorough investigation of the person's estate.

One thing to note is that unless items have been specifically willed to an individual, the contents of the property are part of the estate and if this is disclaimed by the family, the LA is within its rights to sell anything they find in order to pay for the clearance and other arrangements that need to be made.  Therefore family members need to be extremely careful about letting themselves into the property to remove items of sentimental value, because they are not theirs to take.

Jude57 adds some valuable context to the thread and their points are well made.  There are consequences (for family/friends) of disclaiming the estate and leaving it all up to the local authority to deal with, it isn't a free pass, and is an option which is not necessarily without distress and trauma for loved ones.

I can assure you there is no cash or valuables, what there is, is mess from a body that had been there for a month, a washing machine and dishwasher that have been there 10 years or so that I don’t think even work properly, I am happy for them to take anything they want to sell, but the place is a biohazard so I can’t see how they can 

missje

Also, there is now an inquest into the LA for the way she was living as instructed by the coroner after bills the police took as evidence demanding 5k from the LA for her carers that she didn’t have to pay for and they kept harassing her causing her to cancel her care

in_my_wellies

missje said:

Also, there is now an inquest into the LA for the way she was living as instructed by the coroner after bills the police took as evidence demanding 5k from the LA for her carers that she didn’t have to pay for and they kept harassing her causing her to cancel her care

So sad there was no one to look out for her in her last days