Traffic lights, stop lines and yellow box junctions

boxosox

Take a look at this YouTube video by TFL:

https://youtu.be/VNgDxKiEwpU?si=S84YOWVdCeAwR5or&t=58

At the 58 second mark, there's a red car that has passed the stop line (and is blocking the pedestrian crossing) but can't proceed because of the yellow box.  Also, they can no longer see the traffic light.

So what happens if the light turns red (that the driver can't really see) and then the cars the other side of the box move on?  The red car is past the stop line so can they proceed, even though traffic may now be crossing them?  Can they wait for a gap in the traffic and proceed?

And why is there this gap between stop line and yellow box that allows this situation?  

user1977

Well they probably shouldn't proceed into the oncoming traffic. But yes, I don't see anything unlawful in them completing their turn when it's safe to do so. Ideally of course the oncoming traffic would wait to allow such vehicles to move first.

The box is only meant to cover the area which needs to be left clear for traffic from a conflicting direction, so no need for it to extend back to the stop lines.

Mildly_Miffed

The driver of the red van in the video is a muppet who should have stopped further back, behind the bicycle advance stop line.



I notice the video is nearly a decade old, uploaded to YouTube in November 2014. This explains why he's driving a van that wouldn't be allowed into the ULEZ now.

But, no, he can't move forward once his light's red - even if he is past the stop line. The junction almost certainly has lights facing his way on the other side. If it doesn't, he's an even bigger muppet.

Car_54

Mildly_Miffed said:

The driver of the red van in the video is a muppet who should have stopped further back, behind the bicycle advance stop line.





But, no, he can't move forward once his light's red - even if he is past the stop line. 

Why so? If the whole of his vehicle has crossed the stop line, there is nothing to stop him proceeding if it is safe to do so.

daveyjp

Once the lights are green the van can proceed to the edge of the yellow box.  However this should only be done if the van driver can see the traffic beyond the yellow box is moving and they will 'get their turn' during that green light period.

If traffic isn't moving there is no need to go beyond the stop line, but most will due to 'too quick to queue syndrome'.

boxosox

Mildly_Miffed said:

The driver of the red van in the video is a muppet who should have stopped further back, behind the bicycle advance stop line.



I notice the video is nearly a decade old, uploaded to YouTube in November 2014. This explains why he's driving a van that wouldn't be allowed into the ULEZ now.

But, no, he can't move forward once his light's red - even if he is past the stop line. The junction almost certainly has lights facing his way on the other side. If it doesn't, he's an even bigger muppet.

But the highway code clearly says if a light is red, you stop at the stop line.  If you've passed the stop line, the red light no longer applies.

boxosox

daveyjp said:

Once the lights are green the van can proceed to the edge of the yellow box.  However this should only be done if the van driver can see the traffic beyond the yellow box is moving and they will 'get their turn' during that green light period.

If traffic isn't moving there is no need to go beyond the stop line, but most will due to 'too quick to queue syndrome'.

This is impossible to judge.

Okell

Mildly_Miffed said:

... The junction almost certainly has lights facing his way on the other side. If it doesn't, he's an even bigger muppet.

Isn't this ^^^ the answer?

Mildly_Miffed

Car_54 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

The driver of the red van in the video is a muppet who should have stopped further back, behind the bicycle advance stop line.





But, no, he can't move forward once his light's red - even if he is past the stop line. 

Why so? If the whole of his vehicle has crossed the stop line, there is nothing to stop him proceeding if it is safe to do so.

The white car the other side of the junction moves forward, giving the red van space to exit the box...

...but the traffic going across is already moving.

You'd insist on going, because you've already passed the stop line?

Bigphil1474

daveyjp said:

Once the lights are green the van can proceed to the edge of the yellow box.  However this should only be done if the van driver can see the traffic beyond the yellow box is moving and they will 'get their turn' during that green light period.

If traffic isn't moving there is no need to go beyond the stop line, but most will due to 'too quick to queue syndrome'.

There's no reason for the van driver to stop at the edge of the yellow box as he is clearly turning right and the exit is clear. He can stop in the yellow box even if oncoming traffic or other turning traffic is stopping him proceeding. The van driver doesn't have to be a clairvoyant and know that he will get his 'turn' to turn before the lights change. If there are no lights on the other side of the junction, then he can turn when it is safe to do so. 

Car_54

Mildly_Miffed said:

Car_54 said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

The driver of the red van in the video is a muppet who should have stopped further back, behind the bicycle advance stop line.





But, no, he can't move forward once his light's red - even if he is past the stop line. 

Why so? If the whole of his vehicle has crossed the stop line, there is nothing to stop him proceeding if it is safe to do so.

The white car the other side of the junction moves forward, giving the red van space to exit the box...

...but the traffic going across is already moving.

You'd insist on going, because you've already passed the stop line?

It seems I wasted my time emphasising "if it is safe to do so".