Changes to the lease without my consent

FUDbyDesign

DullGreyGuy said:

FUDbyDesign said:

In January, a letter was hand-posted to every flat containing a letter informing residents that "at the Annual General Meeting it was agreed that parking control measures are to be introduced for the Visitors spaces in the form of 24-Hour Visitor Parking Permit scratch cards." There was no mention of what those "measures" would be, or how they would be enforced. And there was certainly no indication that a private parking contractor had been appointed.

Not sure what else you thought parking control measures would be other than ticketing those breaching the existing rules?

Inevitably the car parking section of this site will give you the tools to find a way to squirm out of it. 

Its never going to be possible to attend 100% of any meeting even with the best will in the world but does show the importance of attending AGMs if you're a shareholder in the freeholder!

Agreed, I've attended the previous AGMs and I had every intention of attending this one until a personal matter at the last minute derailed me. Re parking measures, I didn't know what to expect but the other flats in the area haven't implemented PPCs so I honestly didn't know it was an option, and also I thought the actions would be confined to the visitor parking bays. Perhaps that's down to my own inexperience in such matters, but it would have been considerate to at least be told about it or be given the meeting minutes prior to the policy getting implemented.  

Schwarzwald

FUDbyDesign said:

Schwarzwald said:

FUDbyDesign said:

My Situation
My garage is at the end of a block with no thoroughfare. For the last 4 years, I have been parking my car directly in front of my garage since it does not impede the movement of other vehicles at all. Nobody has ever complained about it and in fact the previous owner had been doing the same thing for decades prior. 

just a very simple question but also suggestion to make this all go away.

You have a garage.
Why don't you simply park INSIDE the garage?

the fact that nobody has complained and/or the previous occupier did the same are very weak arguments in favor of your case, especially in the UK where nobody ever complains directly face-2-face. The fact that this new rule came into place seems like a very clear indirect messaging that people might be indeed annoyed at it, but they simply just dont want to say it directly.

so, why dont you simply park INSIDE your garage?

I'm planning to do just that although I have some things to clear out beforehand and there's not enough space for the car plus the kids' bikes so I'll need to find a place for those. But that's my problem and it's neither here nor there.  The issue I have is that I was not consulted or informed about the imposition of a private parking contractor.  I don't even know whether there will be a cost impact in terms of management fees. 

you see, i think this is where the core problem sits.
you are making YOUR problem that your garage is full of stuff OTHER people's problem by parking outside. noboday cares what you have in your garage, just clear it and park your car the way it is supposed to be parked.
This whole question whether you should be consulted or not in relation to a private parking contractor is a deflection of the core issue: you park outside your garage in the communal area instead of inside.

just park inside and problem goes away ...

user1977

FUDbyDesign said:

user1977 said:

FUDbyDesign said:

JM68 said:

Don't think the OP has answered the key question here - does your lease expressly grant you the right to park where you have been parking?

If yes, then you have a legit grievance.

If no, then you have no "right" to park there, regardless of whether you or the previous leaseholder did, unless you get your lease changed to allow it, which presumably will require all other freeholders to agree.

As a leaseholder with a share of the freehold, do I not have certain rights and freedoms to the use of the land (of which I'm a partial owner), obviously as long as they do not impinge on the rights and freedoms of the other leaseholders? 

Is that a legal principle you've just made up yourself, or have you found something which suggests it might apply in this situation? It's not something I've heard before - your rights are those stated in the lease. If you want a right to a parking space, you get your lease varied to say so.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't think the lease can provide an explicit and exhaustive list of rights pertaining to the property

No, that's the whole point of the lease. Which other rights do you think it might omit?

eddddy

FUDbyDesign said:

Agreed, I've attended the previous AGMs and I had every intention of attending this one until a personal matter at the last minute derailed me. Re parking measures, I didn't know what to expect but the other flats in the area haven't implemented PPCs so I honestly didn't know it was an option, and also I thought the actions would be confined to the visitor parking bays. Perhaps that's down to my own inexperience in such matters, but it would have been considerate to at least be told about it or be given the meeting minutes prior to the policy getting implemented.  

Based on what you've said... it sounds like your legal position is...

• the Parking Company are saying you contractually agreed to pay a parking charge - each time you parked in the space outside your garage

• you parked there twice - so they have sent you 2 bills (PCNs)

In order for you to agree those charges, you must be told about them in advance. Normally, Parking Companies tell people about parking charges by putting up signs.

In simple terms, the signs say something like "If you park here, you agree to pay £90" or whatever.


If there were no signs about parking charges, and/or the signs weren't clear, and/or you weren't told about the parking charges in any other way - you would have not been able to agree to pay the charges. So you can dispute the charges on the basis that you weren't told about the parking charges before you parked.

DullGreyGuy

FUDbyDesign said:

DullGreyGuy said:

FUDbyDesign said:

In January, a letter was hand-posted to every flat containing a letter informing residents that "at the Annual General Meeting it was agreed that parking control measures are to be introduced for the Visitors spaces in the form of 24-Hour Visitor Parking Permit scratch cards." There was no mention of what those "measures" would be, or how they would be enforced. And there was certainly no indication that a private parking contractor had been appointed.

Not sure what else you thought parking control measures would be other than ticketing those breaching the existing rules?

Inevitably the car parking section of this site will give you the tools to find a way to squirm out of it. 

Its never going to be possible to attend 100% of any meeting even with the best will in the world but does show the importance of attending AGMs if you're a shareholder in the freeholder!

Agreed, I've attended the previous AGMs and I had every intention of attending this one until a personal matter at the last minute derailed me. Re parking measures, I didn't know what to expect but the other flats in the area haven't implemented PPCs so I honestly didn't know it was an option, and also I thought the actions would be confined to the visitor parking bays. Perhaps that's down to my own inexperience in such matters, but it would have been considerate to at least be told about it or be given the meeting minutes prior to the policy getting implemented.  

I suspect the feeling at the meeting was that just imposing it on the visitor parking would push the problem elsewhere. 

You suspect the offenders were tenants rather than leaseholders and so they'd never get to go to the AGM or see its minutes. They'd only have had the warning you had through the door and the signs going up. 

In a previous place, where we rented, we had similar issues as we were near the train station and as our bit of the development had the visitor parking the gates weren't coded just weight sensitive unlike the other bits of the development. We had a similar notice stuck through our door but it at least had a start date and a process for obtaining a parking permit. 

From a personal perspective, it did cut down the number of rogue vehicles parked there and ended up with 1 PCN as I had a courtesy car for a couple of days and there was no easy mechanism to get a temporary permit as the permits had registration on them. Overall it was for the benefit

propertyrental

The parking company is employed by the freeholder.

The freeholder decided (presumably) at the AGM to 'impose parking restrictions' and employed the parking company.

Whether the Freeholder's decision was valid, we don't know. Was the AGM quorate? How many votes in favour are needed? 50%? 75%? Of those present or of the total shareholders?

But assuming the vote was valid, the Freeholder was within their rights to employ the parking company.

You were informed of the decision in a leaflet to your address.

Parking warning signs were erected.

Whether the PCN is valid would depend on the wording on the signs, the timeframes etc - the parking forum has details of how parking companies can, or can't, impose 'fines'.

Your lease (it seems) gives you no right to park in communal areas eg outside your garage.

Nor does your ownership of a share of the freehold company, unless/until the freeholder decides to grant shareholders such a right - you could put this on the agenda to discuss at the next AGM?

NameUnavailable

What do the other leaseholders do? Can they all park in front of their garages too? Or is it in effect an access/turning road to all garages? Just because if you park at the end it doesn't block anyone, it might make it difficult for some people to park/turn their cars?

If everyone CAN park outside of the garages then get together and instruct the parking company not to ticket residents cars parkd outside the garages, only cars parked elsewhere or in the visitor bays without the permits.

But, I expect the leases don't state that the areas in front of the garages are demised under the lease, only the actual garage.

FUDbyDesign

NameUnavailable said:

What do the other leaseholders do? Can they all park in front of their garages too? Or is it in effect an access/turning road to all garages? Just because if you park at the end it doesn't block anyone, it might make it difficult for some people to park/turn their cars?

If everyone CAN park outside of the garages then get together and instruct the parking company not to ticket residents cars parkd outside the garages, only cars parked elsewhere or in the visitor bays without the permits.

But, I expect the leases don't state that the areas in front of the garages are demised under the lease, only the actual garage.

There isn't enough space in other areas to park a car in front of a garage without it blocking the movement of other vehicles.  The space in front of my garage is unique in that sense, since parking there impedes nobody's movement in any way.  Occasionally, while my car wasn't there other residents would ask if their visitors could park in front of my garage because all the visitor bays were full (c.f., the original problem), and that was always fine by me.  Anyway, from the comments here I get the sense that it's all a bit of a lost cause so I'll just pay for street parking.

Jonboy_1984

Personally I would investigate it from the angle of Estoppel but not sure how it would play out.

NameUnavailable

FUDbyDesign said:

NameUnavailable said:

What do the other leaseholders do? Can they all park in front of their garages too? Or is it in effect an access/turning road to all garages? Just because if you park at the end it doesn't block anyone, it might make it difficult for some people to park/turn their cars?

If everyone CAN park outside of the garages then get together and instruct the parking company not to ticket residents cars parkd outside the garages, only cars parked elsewhere or in the visitor bays without the permits.

But, I expect the leases don't state that the areas in front of the garages are demised under the lease, only the actual garage.

There isn't enough space in other areas to park a car in front of a garage without it blocking the movement of other vehicles.  The space in front of my garage is unique in that sense, since parking there impedes nobody's movement in any way.  Occasionally, while my car wasn't there other residents would ask if their visitors could park in front of my garage because all the visitor bays were full (c.f., the original problem), and that was always fine by me.  Anyway, from the comments here I get the sense that it's all a bit of a lost cause so I'll just pay for street parking.

I think I can imagine how it is, so the 'road' is access only even though in practice your car might not be blocking anyone's access you probably only have right of way over the road to get in and out of your garage.