Getting union recognised at small workplace

kensiko

Hello all

I am new to the union goings on so just looking for some general advice after doing some basic research.

I work in a company of approx. 50 staff and some of us have mentioned unions in discussions with issues we have been having, to try to stand as one.

I personally have signed up with Unite and I will be passing this information to colleagues in the hope they will want to do the same.

1.  To create a bargaining unit is there a lower limit of the full amount of staff that need to be a member of Unite?

2.  To become recognised, do we contact Unite once ready with a list of our names so Unite can write to the directors of the company to be officially recognised?

3.  How would you add further staff to this unit once it is recognised, and do the employers need an upto date list?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and thanks in advance!

Jude57

First, well done for joining a Union. Second, unless you are an accredited workplace representative for Unite (or any Union) be very careful how you approach your employer. However well intentioned, I wouldn't advise it because you could create problems if you don't know what you're doing. By all means keep encouraging your colleagues to join, though, because it's in their own interests to do so.

If you're keen to become a workplace rep Unite will be delighted to pay to train you although training is likely to take place at weekends so you won't get time off work to undertake it. Your questions really should be directed to your regional Unite officer and you should be able to get their contact information here:

https://www.unitetheunion.org/contact-us

Union recognition by employers is only really necessary to enable collective bargaining on things like conditions, terms of employment and pay negotiations. It doesn't affect the Union's ability to support and represent members. I'm not aware of lower limits on membership numbers for collective bargaining but to be honest my employers have all been much bigger than yours. Hopefully others will be along with information on that but again, I'd urge you to seek answers from your Regional Officer.

kensiko

Thanks very much for your details response.

I have asked the same general questions on that contact age already.
I am waiting on their answers but thought I would also try the 'collective mind' 

I am the kind of person that likes to know the ins and outs of these things and probably wouldn't mind getting more involved if required, but for the time being my aim is to try to get more colleagues to join Unite and see what happens from there.

You mentioned "Union recognition by employers is only really necessary to enable collective bargaining on things like conditions, terms of employment and pay negotiations." which is very interesting, as I am aware some of the whispers are along the lines of terms and pay.  Things like holiday entitlement etc.

Jude57

kensiko said:

Hello all

I am new to the union goings on so just looking for some general advice after doing some basic research.

I work in a company of approx. 50 staff and some of us have mentioned unions in discussions with issues we have been having, to try to stand as one.

I personally have signed up with Unite and I will be passing this information to colleagues in the hope they will want to do the same.

1.  To create a bargaining unit is there a lower limit of the full amount of staff that need to be a member of Unite?

2.  To become recognised, do we contact Unite once ready with a list of our names so Unite can write to the directors of the company to be officially recognised?

3.  How would you add further staff to this unit once it is recognised, and do the employers need an upto date list?

Sorry for the newbie questions, and thanks in advance!

Apparently, the number of employees required for Union recognition is 21 according to this:

https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers

There's more on employers working with Unions here:

https://www.gov.uk/working-with-trade-unions

kensiko

Thanks again.  I had read those 2 pages already and they are very helpful.

I was aware of the need for 21 but this is where my understanding fell a bit short.

I didn't quite understand if this means:
the company must have more than 21 employees in total (which mine does) to allow the union to apply via CAC if they are refused
or
you must have a group of 21 employees that are members of unite (for example) who can then be fully recognised.

It seems to be the former if I am understanding correctly.

Jude57

kensiko said:

Thanks again.  I had read those 2 pages already and they are very helpful.

I was aware of the need for 21 but this is where my understanding fell a bit short.

I didn't quite understand if this means:
the company must have more than 21 employees in total (which mine does) to allow the union to apply via CAC if they are refused
or
you must have a group of 21 employees that are members of unite (for example) who can then be fully recognised.

It seems to be the former if I am understanding correctly.

I'd say you have it almost right. My interpretation is that it's the number of employees that is relevant and that if there are 22 or more, those employees don't have to be Union members, either. 

Wyndham

Don't know the process for setting up a recognised union, but just to add, once a union is recognised, the employer has no right to know who is, and who is not, in the union. They also can't (legally) discriminate against you because of it.

kensiko

Wyndham said:

Don't know the process for setting up a recognised union, but just to add, once a union is recognised, the employer has no right to know who is, and who is not, in the union. They also can't (legally) discriminate against you because of it.

I see, I must be misunderstanding something at this point.

According to https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/union-requests-recognition it states when the union is requesting to be recognised they must:
"identify which employees will be represented by the union when it’s recognised, sometimes known as the bargaining unit".

Wyndham

kensiko said:

Wyndham said:

Don't know the process for setting up a recognised union, but just to add, once a union is recognised, the employer has no right to know who is, and who is not, in the union. They also can't (legally) discriminate against you because of it.

I see, I must be misunderstanding something at this point.

According to https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/union-requests-recognition it states when the union is requesting to be recognised they must:
"identify which employees will be represented by the union when it’s recognised, sometimes known as the bargaining unit".

Hmm...  I *think* it must mean groups of staff. So, something along the lines of 'workers in the office at a particular grade and above' or 'all catering staff' or something like that. They certainly should not be passing on any information about individuals.

Grumpy_chap

kensiko said:

I see, I must be misunderstanding something at this point.

According to https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/union-requests-recognition it states when the union is requesting to be recognised they must:
"identify which employees will be represented by the union when it’s recognised, sometimes known as the bargaining unit".

OK - I totally admit I am not knowledgeable here, but my lay-persons take would mean which class of employee will be represented by Union X.

Consider the example of a Teaching Union, they might reasonably represent all Teaching staff at ABC Academy.  Catering staff, Maintenance staff, School Admin, Cleaners, etc. might all be outwith the representation of the Teaching Union, but may have other Union representation.

Only my guess, though.  Someone may know for certain.

EnPointe

kensiko said:

Wyndham said:

Don't know the process for setting up a recognised union, but just to add, once a union is recognised, the employer has no right to know who is, and who is not, in the union. They also can't (legally) discriminate against you because of it.

I see, I must be misunderstanding something at this point.

According to https://www.gov.uk/trade-union-recognition-employers/union-requests-recognition it states when the union is requesting to be recognised they must:
"identify which employees will be represented by the union when it’s recognised, sometimes known as the bargaining unit".

that's groups of staff  

for instance if   you  were a healthcare company   and  the RCN applied ot  for recignition the  'identity of the prepresented staff' would be "Registered Nurses, Registered Nursing Associates,  and  Support Workers who report to RNs and RNAs " 

or it could be  as with CTU within the  the businesses  associated with Currys   ( Currys and  prpviders of services to the company  who were tuped out )   

"Employees in roles which were graded G1 to G 3 under the Currys  pay scheme  "  (  which broadly  translates to Operatives and First Line / Dept managers )