COL Disregard

ChocolateFrog

Hi, I need to migrate to UC next month. I know the COL payments are disregarded indefinitely but do I need to 'prove' that they are part of my savings (will be over 6K)? When the COL payments were made I transferred the money to a separate account but I didn't put a reference or anything. How do I prove that some of my savings are COL payments or am I over thinking it?! Thanks in advance.

HillStreetBlues

I doesn't matter. For capital you would state monies minus CoL payments & minus income and that would be the capital.
Example £7000 monies -£1000 CoL  -£1000 income   your declared capital would be £5k If no income then it would be £6k
If they try and count the CoL payments point them to Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2022 & Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2023 Section 8 (for both)
For the disregard you would have needed that amount to remain in the bank (or anywhere you kept it).
EDIT in bold

ChocolateFrog

HillStreetBlues said:

I doesn't matter. For capital you would state monies minus CoL payments & minus income and that would be the capital.
Example £7000 monies -£1000 CoL  -£1000 income   your declared capital would be £5k If no income then it would be £6k
If they try and count the CoL payments point them to Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2022 & Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2022 Section 8 (for both)
For the disregard you would have needed that amount to remain in the bank (or anywhere you kept it).

Thank you, that's great.  

tomtom256

You add it all and it will ask you if any of the capital should be disregarded, you state yes and declare the CoL as a disregard. If you don't declare it and get it officially disregarded, it could come back to haunt you, if you get data matched etc. They will then verify your capital as the figure left minus the disregards.

NedS

HillStreetBlues said:

I doesn't matter. For capital you would state monies minus CoL payments & minus income and that would be the capital.
Example £7000 monies -£1000 CoL  -£1000 income   your declared capital would be £5k If no income then it would be £6k
If they try and count the CoL payments point them to Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2022 & Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2023 Section 8 (for both)
For the disregard you would have needed that amount to remain in the bank (or anywhere you kept it).
EDIT in bold

As @tomtom256 has stated above, that is not correct.

You must declare all savings and DWP will decide what is included and what can be disregarded - it is not for the claimant to decide or anyone else.

With the new fraud bank monitoring that is coming in, this is exactly the type of situation that will get flagged up for investigation where automated checks show a claimant has balances in their accounts that exceed what they have declared on their UC claim. The UC system will still record the full amount of capital (which would then be used for automated fraud checks) together with any disregard amounts to be used when calculating any notional income from capital.

HillStreetBlues

NedS said:

HillStreetBlues said:

I doesn't matter. For capital you would state monies minus CoL payments & minus income and that would be the capital.
Example £7000 monies -£1000 CoL  -£1000 income   your declared capital would be £5k If no income then it would be £6k
If they try and count the CoL payments point them to Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2022 & Social Security (Additional Payments) Act 2023 Section 8 (for both)
For the disregard you would have needed that amount to remain in the bank (or anywhere you kept it).
EDIT in bold

As @tomtom256 has stated above, that is not correct.

You must declare all savings and DWP will decide what is included and what can be disregarded - it is not for the claimant to decide or anyone else.

With the new fraud bank monitoring that is coming in, this is exactly the type of situation that will get flagged up for investigation where automated checks show a claimant has balances in their accounts that exceed what they have declared on their UC claim. The UC system will still record the full amount of capital (which would then be used for automated fraud checks) together with any disregard amounts to be used when calculating any notional income from capital.

Disagree.
It's not for the DWP to decide.  This isn't a judgement call, the decision for CoL payments to be disregarded is in statue, the DWP like everyone else must follow that statue if it doesn't it will get overruled by a Tribunal.
So there can not be any fraud as you won't have claimed any benefit that you weren't entitled too.

tomtom256

So are disregards for trusts, selling a property and using the funds for purchasing a new property etc, the capital still has to be declared in the first place, so that the disregards can be applied.
Can you tell me where it states not to declare the CoL payments? You have to declare all capital and savings, not just what you choose to declare.

HillStreetBlues

tomtom256 said:

So are disregards for trusts, selling a property and using the funds for purchasing a new property etc, the capital still has to be declared in the first place, so that the disregards can be applied.
Can you tell me where it states not to declare the CoL payments? You have to declare all capital and savings, not just what you choose to declare.

Where in the statute of income related benefits states you have to break down capital under £6k
So if you don't declare it and they find out  you have under £6k  what would be the punishment?

tomtom256

HillStreetBlues said:

Where in the statute of income related benefits states you have to break down capital under £6k
So if you don't declare it and they find out  you have under £6k  what would be the punishment?

No, but it does state you have to declare all of your savings/capital which would include CoL payments, back pay of beneifts (also disregarded for a set period), savings accounts, premium bonds, digital currency etc and not to only delcare your savings minus any disregards or what you think should be disregarded.

It's symantecs and we could keep going around in circles, but the legislation states that all capital/savings should be declared. The DWP will then apply all applicable disregards, it's not really that hard to understand.

The OP has also stated it takes him over the £6k limit, so potentially yes it could cause an unecessary investigation, when they could just declare it and have it disregarded from the outset of the claim, so the under £6k point has nothing to do with it, but even if your savings where under £6k, again, why wouldn't declare all of the CoL payments so that they are disregarded for the length of your claim, as they are worth quite a large disregard all in.

HillStreetBlues

tomtom256 said:

It's symantecs and we could keep going around in circles, but the legislation states that all capital/savings should be declared. The DWP will then apply all applicable disregards, it's not really that hard to understand.

Can you point to where it does state that in legislation as if I've missed it I can have a reread.

tomtom256

Part 6 covers capital and how it is treated.
(1) The whole of a person's capital is to be taken into account unless—

(a)it is to be treated as income (see paragraphs (3) and (4)); or

(b)it is to be disregarded (see regulation 48).

(2) A person's personal possessions are not to be treated as capital.

(3) Subject to paragraph (4), any sums that are paid regularly and by reference to a period, for example payments under an annuity, are to be treated as income even if they would, apart from this provision, be regarded as capital or as having a capital element.

(4) Where capital is payable by instalments, each payment of an instalment is to be treated as income if the amount outstanding, combined with any other capital of the person (and, if the person is a member of a couple, the other member), exceeds £16,000, but otherwise such payments are to be treated as capital.

Whilst it doesn't specifically state what should be declared, it's pretty obious all income has to be declared in order to be taken into account or for any disregards to be applied. If they don't know about it, how can it be treated as capital or be disregarded. But again it is just semantics, as everybody knows you have to declare all of your savings/capital, all help sites tell you this and the DWP will then apply the disregards, it isn't down to the individual to decide what should be disregarded by deciding not to disclose it when making a claim.