Senior moment may cost me £100

Coupon-mad

You seem to have missed my main advice:

"You won't pay anything.  See the NEWBIES thread.  The last few Britannia NTKs I saw recently were non-POFA and easy to beat."

In order to understand what that means you just read the NEWBIES thread.

Fruitcake

Lulu58 said:

Coupon-mad said:

No you were right to pay for a ticket.

You then drove past a camera.

What do I do now - do I just wait and see if I'm sent a PCN?

Also, as I've left two messages asking for advice on their answerphone service what should I say if they bother to call me back? I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have called them

As I said in my previous post, if/when you get a PCN, enact Plan A, and if that doesn't work, Plan B.

Never, ever 'phone an unregulated private parking company or any of their agents. If they 'phone you, politely tell them they have the wrong number then hang up. Do not engage with them.

Fruitcake

Lulu58 said:

Fruitcake said:

If/when you get a PCN, Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP. If the driver didn't know they had to pay in advance, or whatever else the Ts and Cs were, then the signs were obviously inadequate. Include the proof of payment, which would have been made by an occupant of the car who was not necessarily the driver. 

Plan B is to appeal.

Get photos of the site and signage if possible. Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

The signage is quite clear that it's pay on arrival. I just didn't see the signs and was on 'auto mode' in terms of the way the car park used to operate.

How do I find out who the land owner is?

It's in Welwyn, Herts.

Is there only the one car park in that town? I would be surprised if that were the case. Wherever it is, you need to get photos of the site and signage. The Britannia group of companies sometimes have trouble remembering which of their companies at which site, so it is important to know which one is named on the signs.

Lulu58

Fruitcake said:

Lulu58 said:

Fruitcake said:

If/when you get a PCN, Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP. If the driver didn't know they had to pay in advance, or whatever else the Ts and Cs were, then the signs were obviously inadequate. Include the proof of payment, which would have been made by an occupant of the car who was not necessarily the driver. 

Plan B is to appeal.

Get photos of the site and signage if possible. Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

The signage is quite clear that it's pay on arrival. I just didn't see the signs and was on 'auto mode' in terms of the way the car park used to operate.

How do I find out who the land owner is?

It's in Welwyn, Herts.

Is there only the one car park in that town? I would be surprised if that were the case. Wherever it is, you need to get photos of the site and signage. The Britannia group sometimes have trouble remembering which of their companies at which site, so it is important to know which one is named on the signs.

I lived in the town about 20 years ago but was just visiting and I'm not really sure of how many car parks there are. I know of two other car parks for definite - one services the railway station, the other the main shopping centre.

I took a photo of the sign so I have the location code.  

I would guess John Lewis is the owner, but they may have leased it from the council or another landowner. How do I find out?

On what basis could I complain to the landowner and my MP (who never responds to anything!) if the signage is clear etc? This was just an honest mistake, and I paid for a ticket as soon as I realised.

Also, do I write now, ie before I've got a PCN?  

I received a call from the parking company but didn't answer.  They left a message asking me to contact them via email. Thank you for the advice.

Lulu58

Coupon-mad said:

You seem to have missed my main advice:

"You won't pay anything.  See the NEWBIES thread.  The last few Britannia NTKs I saw recently were non-POFA and easy to beat."

In order to understand what that means you just read the NEWBIES thread.

I thought I'd replied, but perhaps not. I will read the NEWBIES thread as advised. Thank you.

Coupon-mad

Do nothing yet.

When you get the NTK you will be comparing it to the linked thread of NTK pictures that you read about in the NEWBIES thread.

Fruitcake

Lulu58 said:

Fruitcake said:

Lulu58 said:

Fruitcake said:

If/when you get a PCN, Plan A is always a complaint from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP. If the driver didn't know they had to pay in advance, or whatever else the Ts and Cs were, then the signs were obviously inadequate. Include the proof of payment, which would have been made by an occupant of the car who was not necessarily the driver. 

Plan B is to appeal.

Get photos of the site and signage if possible. Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

The signage is quite clear that it's pay on arrival. I just didn't see the signs and was on 'auto mode' in terms of the way the car park used to operate.

How do I find out who the land owner is?

It's in Welwyn, Herts.

Is there only the one car park in that town? I would be surprised if that were the case. Wherever it is, you need to get photos of the site and signage. The Britannia group sometimes have trouble remembering which of their companies at which site, so it is important to know which one is named on the signs.

I lived in the town about 20 years ago but was just visiting and I'm not really sure of how many car parks there are. I know of two other car parks for definite - one services the railway station, the other the main shopping centre.

I took a photo of the sign so I have the location code.  

I would guess John Lewis is the owner, but they may have leased it from the council or another landowner. How do I find out?

On what basis could I complain to the landowner and my MP (who never responds to anything!) if the signage is clear etc? This was just an honest mistake, and I paid for a ticket as soon as I realised.

Also, do I write now, ie before I've got a PCN?  

I received a call from the parking company but didn't answer.  They left a message asking me to contact them via email. Thank you for the advice.

I asked where the car park was so we can see if there is any existing information on this forum about the car park in question, or if any of the regulars have any information that could help, but we can't do that because all you have told us is that it's in a rather large town in Kent.

Please also show us your photo' of the sign.

Regular poster @Umkomaas has previously posted the following guide that may help to identify the landowner/landholder, but save 7 for now unless you get a court claim in the future.

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Complaints should simply state facts. The driver entered the car park, an occupant of the car paid for parking, but the keeper got an invoice. Include a copy of proof of payment, and say, please cancel. However, you can't do anything unless or until you get a PCN.

Lulu58

Coupon-mad said:

Do nothing yet.

When you get the NTK you will be comparing it to the linked thread of NTK pictures that you read about in the NEWBIES tgread.

Thanks, Coupon-mad. Will do.

Lulu58

Fruitcake said:

I asked where the car park was so we can see if there is any existing information on this forum about the car park in question, or if any of the regulars have any information that could help, but we can't do that because all you have told us is that it's in a rather large town in Kent.

Please also show us your photo' of the sign.

Regular poster @Umkomaas has previously posted the following guide that may help to identify the landowner/landholder, but save 7 for now unless you get a court claim in the future.

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. If you haven't already done so, give us the name of the car park/site/location, we may have seen other cases there. 

Complaints should simply state facts. The driver entered the car park, an occupant of the car paid for parking, but the keeper got an invoice. Include a copy of proof of payment, and say, please cancel. However, you can't do anything unless or until you get a PCN.

Hi Fruitcake and thanks for your post.  I mentioned in another post that the car park is in Welwyn, Herts but actually meant to type Welwyn Garden City, Herts. More haste, less speed methinks!

See photo below of the sign.

Thank you for the helpful information regarding how to identify the landowner/landholder. The car park outside the John Lewis store on Wigmores North, Welwyn Garden City. Other websites suggest it's on Bridge Road or Sir Theodore's Way but it's not.

Fruitcake

The entrance sign states it is the John Lewis car park, so if you get a PCN, start with a complaint to the store manager and/or CEO.

What is the name of the parking company on the NTK. Please check it and type exactly what it says. Sometimes the name on the NTK is similar to, but does not exactly match the name on the signs.

Is the pay machine still next to the sign at the entrance? It was in April 2023 according to Google Streetview, but may now have been removed to make it difficult for people to pay who do not have a phone, or cannot get a 'phone signal, or internet access on their 'phone. It's the same reason why barriers have been removed so motorists can no longer pay at the exit kiosk, thus stopping them from forgetting even if they a cognitive disability.
Please also check/take a photo of the name on the pay machine if it's still there, even if it isn't in use.