Rejected Car Issue - not what you might think!

Spride

sheramber said:

Was your  daughter was driving it without tax if she’s has not taxed it?

Has she insured it?

Yes it was 

Spride

Jenni_D said:

Spride said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Spride said:

Jenni_D said:

IS your daughter the registered keeper? Did she do anything with the V5C slip she received?

Hi Jenni, no, she isn't the registered keeper, when she contacted DVLA because she hadn't received a V5 in her name they told her she had to buy a replacement. (She has a V5 already for the car she had to buy to get about last week.)

Incidentally, in reply to another response, we found:

It is the dealers obligation to collect the vehicle, unless your sales contract includes a clause obliging you to return the car. You only have to make sure the car is available to collect. - the car has been available to collect for nearly 2 months now.

this is why we have made multiple attempts to get them to collect their property but to no avail.

Did she purchase online, or at the dealers location?

At the dealer but as stated they have to collect: that is the consumer rights law. I suppose the question is, how long do I have to keep it before I can send it to the breakers, what would be a reasonable time limit given that they have already had 2 months?

I believe you've misinterpreted the legislation ... if you bought "in store" and collected "in store" then the onus is on the consumer to return the goods to the "store" if the goods are being rejected.

Not the case with cars, it would have to be sent on a transporter which would then lead to small claims court to recover substantial costs. Maybe a lot of these used car dealers think that consumers won't know the law, the dealer has tried to treat us as if we'd bought privately, so no come back, it doesn't work like that, buying from a dealer you pay over the odds on the basis you have some protection, it had a warranty and that at least was genuine, but the car failed in days, they then expected us to wait it out and claim on the warranty after refusing to refund (our legal right) or even repair (a compromise we would have accepted despite not having to)

Spride

Alderbank said:

sheramber said:

Was your  daughter was driving it without tax if she’s has not taxed it?

Has she insured it?

On page 1 the OP said  'She taxed and insured it at the point of purchase'
and on page 2 they said 'the tax and insurance have been cancelled .'

She taxed and insured it, once it had a problem and had been looked at the car was returned to my home, the tax and insurance was cancelled, there is no point paying for something that is now a garden ornament. So yes she is out of pocket for a months tax and insurance. The original question, bearing in mind the money has been returned is what can I do about said ornament as the dealer seems to have no interest uncovering it! Thanks

Spride

Should read 'recovering it'!

RefluentBeans

Hi OP,

I’m afraid this post isn’t going to what you want to hear, but it’s a topic that hasn’t been touched yet.

Chargebacks do not have a legal standing. What that means is that you may consider the contract cancelled and void, but the retailer may not; and the courts are the only third party (if you can call them that) to unwind a contract for you. The banks do not have that power. This means for all intents and purposes, you have the money back and the original contract is still in effect, meaning that the retailer can pursue the contract for its worth. 

What this means in reality is that they may now consider that you owe them the money, and could engage people to collect the debt or issue legal proceedings to regain the money. The former (civil debt collectors) have no power to force you to pay, and may be willing to accept the car back as the ‘pay or we’ll take it away’ sort of mentality of these collection agencies. The legal route is more scarier, but you have a good defence in the fact your rights were breached. 

In regards to what the next step is; I think you’ll sort of need to wait to see what the dealers next step is. It’s highly unlikely that the dealer will let the car and money go, so they will be planning a next step; but you’ll have to wait to see what it is. 

It’s also worth pointing out that if you get rid of the car (either by dumping it in the street or however you want it to be gone), you lose the carrot to hold over the dealers head. Additionally, if anything happens to it and the police get involved I would imagine they’d take a less pragmatic view and use the ‘younsigned a contract, the dealer hasn’t accepted the car back, and you cancelled the insurance, so therefore your issue’ sort of logic.

All this is to say until you know what the next move is, the best thing to do is wait. Even if you don’t legally need to, if the car is damaged, stolen, or destroyed then it makes it even more complicated. Ultimately the dealer may just go ‘fine we’ll accept it back’ - if the cars gone then it makes it more complicated (even more so than now) to deal with. 

I know this isn’t what you wanted to hear, but to make life easier in the long term, just keep it until you know what the dealer is doing. In the same way that if he accepts it back, you may just want to get someone to tow it there so the matter can be closed. What is legally right, and the compromises you make for life to be easier are often not one and the same. And it’s better to have peace of mind than choosing a battle which will get messy, in my opinion. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

OP as it stand you are an involuntary bailee, your obligations are to take reasonable care of the car, write to the dealer twice to let them know the car is available for collection and after this either continue to take care of the car or sell it for a fair market value and give that money, after selling costs, to the dealer if they come looking. 

If I were you I'd put pen to paper and advise the dealer that the car does not conform to the contract and as the right to repair was refused* you have exercised the final right to reject and will take reasonable care of the car until it is collected.

Presumably the car is off the road (as it is no longer taxed or insured), keeping it in a garage is ideal, if it isn't then long term I would buy a cover for the car to help protect it from the elements and hope the dealer is never heard from again. 

Sorry if I missed it but I didn't see how much you paid for the car, if this is a £30k car chances are the dealer will want it back, if it's a few grand lemon they hoped to pass on without the buyer noticing they might not bother. 

*Hopefully this refusal of repair was via text, messenger, email etc, whilst what is said verbally counts it's obviously harder to prove. 

RefluentBeans said:

What this means in reality is that they may now consider that you owe them the money, and could engage people to collect the debt or issue legal proceedings to regain the money. The former (civil debt collectors) have no power to force you to pay, and may be willing to accept the car back as the ‘pay or we’ll take it away’ sort of mentality of these collection agencies. 

Whilst this is advice well meaning the people from Can't Pay We'll Take It Away are High Court Enforcement with the proper procedures to seize goods and auction them to satisfy a debt.

Personally I wouldn't hand the car to to someone who doesn't have that official process without first having the direct express consent of the dealer.

born_again

Chargeback has nothing to do with consumer rights. So if you win the chargeback, the retailer can still take you to court for the money now owed.
Which they have 6 years to do.

Who cancelled the VED?

As if she taxed it then as far as DVLA go she was the registered keeper. So a new V5 should have been sent out.

Spride

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

OP as it stand you are an involuntary bailee, your obligations are to take reasonable care of the car, write to the dealer twice to let them know the car is available for collection and after this either continue to take care of the car or sell it for a fair market value and give that money, after selling costs, to the dealer if they come looking. 

If I were you I'd put pen to paper and advise the dealer that the car does not conform to the contract and as the right to repair was refused* you have exercised the final right to reject and will take reasonable care of the car until it is collected.

Presumably the car is off the road (as it is no longer taxed or insured), keeping it in a garage is ideal, if it isn't then long term I would buy a cover for the car to help protect it from the elements and hope the dealer is never heard from again. 

Sorry if I missed it but I didn't see how much you paid for the car, if this is a £30k car chances are the dealer will want it back, if it's a few grand lemon they hoped to pass on without the buyer noticing they might not bother. 

*Hopefully this refusal of repair was via text, messenger, email etc, whilst what is said verbally counts it's obviously harder to prove. 

RefluentBeans said:

What this means in reality is that they may now consider that you owe them the money, and could engage people to collect the debt or issue legal proceedings to regain the money. The former (civil debt collectors) have no power to force you to pay, and may be willing to accept the car back as the ‘pay or we’ll take it away’ sort of mentality of these collection agencies. 

Whilst this is advice well meaning the people from Can't Pay We'll Take It Away are High Court Enforcement with the proper procedures to seize goods and auction them to satisfy a debt.

Personally I wouldn't hand the car to to someone who doesn't have that official process without first having the direct express consent of the dealer.

Thanks, it was sold for £4500 given the issues that came to light it's market value is under £2000 hence their reticence to fix the issue, I'll put it in the corner with a cover over it. Given that they at best breached consumer law in their refusal to refund the money, and at worst committed outright fraud I don't expect a court date anytime soon but value all the advice!

Ectophile

If anyon wants to read the legal stuff on being an involuntary bailee, it's in the Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977, section 12. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32

Not the clearest law I have ever read!