Charge Notice Hirer Notification

Coupon-mad

I thought the reply by @troublemaker22 covered these questions?

luzippu

It did, and i have build my appeal based on that. 
I'm following the airport thread and only contact the IPC firm once for the initial appeal.
I just wasn't sure about those couple of questions, mainly the timeline.

troublemaker22

1.  You are never the keeper.  You are the hirer.   The keeper is the lease company. Refer to yourself only as 'hirer'. If the drop down menu in the appeal website doesn't offer 'hirer' as an option, select 'keeper' and explain in the body of the appeal that you are in fact the hirer but the correct option was not offered.
2.  Yes.  Follow the online process.
3.  The deadline is 21 days.  It's your own decision as to how close to the deadline to submit.  I wouldn't leave it to the very last day in case the internet fails you on the day.
4.  If asked for your name and address what possible reason would you have for withholding them, given that VCS already knows your name and address (they are printed on the notice to hirer)? And you are not the keeper.  You are the hirer.  
5.  Obviously yes -you are not the keeper.  You are the hirer. 

Also, there is no 5 minute grace period in the IPC Code of Practice, which refers only to an unquantified 'reasonable Consideration Period'. Amend accordingly 

You need to manage your own expectations here.  Once VCS rejects your appeal, you will be given the opportunity to make a further appeal to the so-called 'Independent Appeals Service' (IAS) which is widely regarded as a kangaroo court that is biased against the motorist, so not worth appealing to.  My own view is that there is no harm in appealing to IAS because you might win, the outcome isn't binding on you if you lose and anyway preparing a more detailed appeal to IAS is good training for the real fight, which is to defend yourself in the court case that VCS will need to bring against you if they want to try to force you to pay  - and which you should win if you follow the guidance on this forum, starting with the Newbies thread.

luzippu

Thanks again. When submitting the appeal  I have to pick a reason from a list in the form.
Is it ok to go for "This vehicle has never been owned by me"?

See list of options attached. Not sure if relevant

Coupon-mad

Yes that would do.

luzippu

An update on this journey:

First appeal submitted to VCS before the deadline:

I appeal as hirer. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. 
1. You are unable to transfer liability to the hirer pursuant to Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ('POFA') because airport drop-off zones are not ‘relevant land’ as defined in POFA. 
2. Even if (which is not the case) the land in question is relevant land your notice does not conform to the requirements set out in POFA paragraphs 9(2)(f) and 14. 
Furthermore, as hirer I am entitled to all the defences available to the driver including (without limitation) the following: 
3. The parking charge is not notified until after the contract is entered into and under the principles set out by the Court of Appeal in Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking, does not form part of the contract between the driver and VCS; 
4. The signage is not compliant with the IPC Code of Practice; 
5. The car was stationary for not more than 1 minute and the driver is entitled to a reasonable consideration period mandated by the IPC Code of Practice v9, 13.1. 
Any one of the above reasons is alone sufficient to require cancellation of the CN. 
Therefore I require you to cancel the CN and expunge my personal data from your records.

Rejection of appeal received as expected, and I now have 21 days (2 weeks left) to raise a ‘free Standard Appeal’ to the IAS. I understand this is almost pointless, but as suggested I will go ahead and use the service.

Attached is the rejection from VCS, I assume this is a standard letter? 

Thanks again.

Coupon-mad

Yes all standard. Only do IAS tongue in cheek.  Have to say I wouldn't bother with it, I'd ignore.

nopcns

You cannot be anything but amused at the intellectual starvation of VCS continuing to say that they will continue to pursue you "under the reasonable assumption you were the driver on the date in question", considering they were the Claimant/Respondent in the VCS v Edward appeal judgment that settled, once and for all, that there can be no such thing as a "reasonable assumption", in other words, an inference, that the registered keeper must also be the driver.

Should this actually get as far as a claim, it would be well worthwhile highlighting this fact as evidence of vexatiousness and unreasonable behaviour.

luzippu

No need for further help/reply, just posting in case it helps anyone else in a similar position.

A quick recap:

• I received a Charge Notice (CN) Hirer Notification (HN) from VCS (PPC) on 13/02/2024
• Date of contravention was 12/01/2024, at Southend Airport
• I am the hirer, not the keeper. (The keeper is the rental company)
• I appealed using the standard MSE Forum template on 04/03/2024
• My appeal was rejected on 13/03/2024
• I did not appeal to IAS as suggested
• I received a Notice of Debt Recovery letter from DCBL (Direct Collections Bailiffs Ltd) on 16/04/2024, which I will ignore (attached)

Everything so far is following the well-documented steps in the NEWBIES thread.

Hope this helps, and thank you moderators.

[Image removed by Forum Team]

luzippu

Received Letter of Claim on 10/05/2024 and have 30 days to respond.

 I have a couple of questions please:

1. I will respond via email using your template rather than using dcbl online form as they ask about employer info, financial statements etc. Is responding via email ok?
2. Reading through newbies and other posts I have compiled the following response. Does it look ok? For example do I keep some of the language as-is? e.g. “don't faff about”, “your usual blather”
3. As a Hirer, do I need to adjust anything else? See in bold

Many thanks

 

Dear Sirs,

Your Ref. xxxxx
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: Vehicle Control Services Limited

I refer to your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:

xxxxx
xxxxx
xxxxx

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

Don't send me your usual blather about that.

I am the hirer of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the hirer of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver (see VCS v Edward, 2023).

As you and your client are well aware, there is no hirer liability at Stansted Airport because the airport is not ‘relevant land’ as defined in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. So your client cannot pursue me as hirer.

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or hirer, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable conduct.

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for stopping?

 

Yours faithfully,

Xxxxx xxxxx