Returning to original state vs fair wear & tear?

se2020

Asking on behalf of someone else..

Tennant moved into a rental property nearly 20yrs ago. 
Is now moving out.

The property was freshly refurbished when they moved in. All walls painted white, new carpets throughout, existing kitchen and bathroom left in place but new tiles on the walls etc.

Over the first 10yrs or so of living there they have painted the walls in various colours and replaced all the carpets with laminate flooring & vinyl. 

No work has been done on the property in the last 10yrs or so.

Upon handing in notice the landlord has done a property visit and asked for the walls and flooring to be returned to the original state along with a few other things like light switches and curtains. 

Now, I understand that if they painted a white wall yellow they should return it to white before they leave but would this still apply after 20yrs or would it be expected that the walls would all need repainting due to normal wear & tear by then anyway?

Same with the flooring?
The original carpets were all worn out after 10yrs or so and now the replacement flooring fitted by the tenant is also worn out.
As the landlord never had to replace the original carpet should the tenant be expected to do so?

Is there a general guide available for how long various items should be expected to last in a rental property?

housebuyer143

I don't think it's reasonable to expect the tenant to put in brand new carpets after 20 years, same with painting. 

I personally would leave it clean and tidy and then go to arbitration with the deposit scheme making it very clear the amount of time they have been there and the age of the items. Carpet is not lasting 20 years in a rental and the walls would need painting again for sure. 

se2020

The deposit is directly with the landlord.
As far as I am aware it did not need to be registered as the tenancy started before the scheme was introduced. 

It would also be my opinion that them fitting new carpets & repainting etc would amount to 'betterment' as the previous items would not have been expected to last the 20yrs.

However there is some paperwork giving them permission to change/redecorate but on the condition the property is returned to the original state before the tenancy ends

Cairnpapple

How much is the deposit? If it was 20 years ago it may not be large. In which case I'd be inclined to do nothing and request the deposit back, knowing that worst case scenario I'm losing less than it would cost to paint etc. 

theartfullodger

As landlord after 7 years i would expect with rented property to be prepared at my expense to redecorate, re-floor, re-furnish the whole place.  Aftet 20 years I'd be thanking tenants profusely.

pramsay13

There is no guide to how long various items should last but nothing would be expected to last 20 years so just leave the property clean and tidy and request the deposit back. 
It is slightly trickier if it isn't protected, but if the landlord withholds any the tenant could make a claim for the full amount and they would have a very strong case, especially with permission to change / redecorate etc.

_Penny_Dreadful

se2020 said:

The deposit is directly with the landlord.
As far as I am aware it did not need to be registered as the tenancy started before the scheme was introduced. 

It would also be my opinion that them fitting new carpets & repainting etc would amount to 'betterment' as the previous items would not have been expected to last the 20yrs.

However there is some paperwork giving them permission to change/redecorate but on the condition the property is returned to the original state before the tenancy ends

Was any new tenancy agreement ever signed after the initial fixed term ended or has it been periodic ever since the initial fixed term ended?

After 20 years the tenants don’t need to redecorate or replace the carpets. The landlord is having a giraffe if he expects the tenants to do so after 20 years. 

se2020

I don't think it's got anything to do with the deposit (which was one months rent 20yrs ago!)

The tenant and his son both (individually) rent commercial properties from the same landlord hence he doesn't want to fall out with him over the decorating issue.

Agreed,  the cost of redoing the house would be far more than the deposit. 

The issue I see with it is, the written permission to change/decorate the property was given fairly early on and it does say "to be returned to the previous state before the end of the tenancy"

se2020

_Penny_Dreadful said:

se2020 said:

The deposit is directly with the landlord.
As far as I am aware it did not need to be registered as the tenancy started before the scheme was introduced. 

It would also be my opinion that them fitting new carpets & repainting etc would amount to 'betterment' as the previous items would not have been expected to last the 20yrs.

However there is some paperwork giving them permission to change/redecorate but on the condition the property is returned to the original state before the tenancy ends

Was any new tenancy agreement ever signed after the initial fixed term ended or has it been periodic ever since the initial fixed term ended?

After 20 years the tenants don’t need to redecorate or replace the carpets. The landlord is having a giraffe if he expects the tenants to do so after 20 years. 

No.
It just went onto periodic after the first year.
I don't known if he is having a laugh as he just mentioned casually that he was expecting it to be ready to rent out again directly after the existing tenants move out as it was freshly refurbished when they moved in and they are required to hand it back in the same state.
By which I guess he is referring to the redecoration agreement?

_Penny_Dreadful

se2020 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

se2020 said:

The deposit is directly with the landlord.
As far as I am aware it did not need to be registered as the tenancy started before the scheme was introduced. 

It would also be my opinion that them fitting new carpets & repainting etc would amount to 'betterment' as the previous items would not have been expected to last the 20yrs.

However there is some paperwork giving them permission to change/redecorate but on the condition the property is returned to the original state before the tenancy ends

Was any new tenancy agreement ever signed after the initial fixed term ended or has it been periodic ever since the initial fixed term ended?

After 20 years the tenants don’t need to redecorate or replace the carpets. The landlord is having a giraffe if he expects the tenants to do so after 20 years. 

No.
It just went onto periodic after the first year.
I don't known if he is having a laugh as he just mentioned casually that he was expecting it to be ready to rent out again directly after the existing tenants move out as it was freshly refurbished when they moved in and they are required to hand it back in the same state.
By which I guess he is referring to the redecoration agreement?

He’s living in cloud-cuckoo-land if he thinks that after 20 years the property won’t need any work before getting the next set of tenants in. 

He is not entitled to betterment and the residual cost of 20 year old decoration and carpets is zero. Any attempt and withholding the deposit and the tenants need to send a letter before action and then file a money claim online. 

BobT36

se2020 said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

se2020 said:

The deposit is directly with the landlord.
As far as I am aware it did not need to be registered as the tenancy started before the scheme was introduced. 

It would also be my opinion that them fitting new carpets & repainting etc would amount to 'betterment' as the previous items would not have been expected to last the 20yrs.

However there is some paperwork giving them permission to change/redecorate but on the condition the property is returned to the original state before the tenancy ends

Was any new tenancy agreement ever signed after the initial fixed term ended or has it been periodic ever since the initial fixed term ended?

After 20 years the tenants don’t need to redecorate or replace the carpets. The landlord is having a giraffe if he expects the tenants to do so after 20 years. 

No.
It just went onto periodic after the first year.
I don't known if he is having a laugh as he just mentioned casually that he was expecting it to be ready to rent out again directly after the existing tenants move out as it was freshly refurbished when they moved in and they are required to hand it back in the same state.
By which I guess he is referring to the redecoration agreement?

Same state LESS FAIR WEAR & TEAR. 

Tell him you can put in some 20 year old carpets, if he wants.