Letter Before Action - Civil Enforcement Ltd - Parking fee paid but still chasing PCN and now court

plainjane70

Well, today I received a letter from the County Court! I will of course be defending!

KeithP

plainjane70 said:

Well, today I received a letter from the County Court! I will of course be defending!

Are you saying that you have now received a Claim Form?

If so, please tell us the Issue Date on it and can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.

plainjane70

KeithP said:

plainjane70 said:

Well, today I received a letter from the County Court! I will of course be defending!

Are you saying that you have now received a Claim Form?

If so, please tell us the Issue Date on it and can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.

Evening Keith, 

Yes that's exactly what I have received in the post today.

The Issue Date is 14/11/2024.

I am not entirely surprised they've sent this, however I am surprised it has come only a week or so after their last letter which said they were going to send the 'debt' to a bailiff, so I was actually waiting for a letter from them.

Apologies, the image seems to have come out a bit dark.  

KeithP

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th November, you have until Tuesday 3rd December to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 17th December 2024 to file a Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

plainjane70

KeithP said:

With a Claim Issue Date of 14th November, you have until Tuesday 3rd December to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 17th December 2024 to file a Defence.

That's four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

Thanks Keith. I will file the Acknowledgement of Service this weekend and hopefully get a defence prepared at the same time - hopefully won't need the extra time and with that date being so close to Christmas I wouldn't want to risk forgetting entirely or getting significantly sidetracked by something. 

Do you think I would need much more to my defence, other than what I have stated above about how and why I got the ticket? I have seen that people use in the defences, things like poor positioning of signage; small writing; etc. Should I try to include things like that too?

I think, but not certain, that the first sign in the car park stating the T&Cs is positioned after the position that the camera that takes photos of cars entering the car park (if that makes sense) - is that significant?

Thanks for all your advice so far,
Jane

Gr1pr

Adapt paragraphs 2 & 3 of the template defence, address the POC, full payment was made etc, keep it concise 

Post your adapted paragraphs ONLY below, do not post the rest of the template 

Save the stories for the witness statement bundle next year sometime 

plainjane70

Gr1pr said:

Adapt paragraphs 2 & 3 of the template defence, address the POC, full payment was made etc, keep it concise 

Post your adapted paragraphs ONLY below, do not post the rest of the template 

Save the stories for the witness statement bundle next year sometime 

Hi Gr1pr,

Thanks for your comment. I've finally got to doing this - I started writing a story and then remembered your words about keeping it concise. Needless to say I did file the Acknowledgment of Service too.

What do you think about the below paragraphs? I wasn't quite sure what to do with paragraph 2, so all I have added is that I wasn't the driver and that the parking company knows this.

For paragraph 3, I've tried to keep it concise and I haven't mentioned all of details of the difficulties of payment by mobile app, nor the fact that my friend who was driving accidentally mistyped the registration into the app (one letter was wrong).

2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appears to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper. The Defendant was not the driver of the vehicle, the Claimant has been informed of this and has also been provided with the details of the driver. Despite this, the Claimant has chosen to pursue the Defendant.

3. The Defendant loaned the vehicle to a friend for the day, hereafter known as ‘the driver’. The driver parked in the car park and paid £2.50 for all day parking, as advertised by the exterior sign which states ‘PARKING £2.50 ALL DAY’. No terms and conditions are shown at the exterior of the car park which makes it impossible for any driver to enter with knowledge of the terms and conditions or indeed how to pay for the parking. The driver entered the car park at 13:55 and after parking the vehicle immediately looked for a parking payment meter, however there were none. The driver went to the nearest sign to discover how to pay the £2.50 for all day parking - two options were provided: pay by phone and pay by mobile app. The driver attempted to pay by phone however the signal was poor, so the driver tried the other payment option. Payment by mobile app was difficult and time consuming, however the driver persevered and made full payment of £2.50. This payment can be evidence and receipt of the payment has been acknowledged by the parking company. The driver did not leave the car park at any point until full payment was made.

What do you think of this - too much or too little?

Do you think I should add a sentence about being given only 10 minutes to pay, which is nearly impossible, and put pressure on my friend when trying to make the payment (which is what possibly led to the registration mistake)?

Thank you kindly for your help. I can't wait for all of this to be over. 

Best,
Jane

Coupon-mad

Name the friend and give their postal address in the defence (but don't show us).  Did you provide their full name and address before litigation? If so, state that it is unlawful for a parking firm to continue to pursue a registered keeper once they have the name & address of the driver, which they did in MONTH/YEAR.

plainjane70

Coupon-mad said:

Name the friend and give their postal address in the defence (but don't show us).  Did you provide their full name and address before litigation? If so, state that it is unlawful for a parking firm to continue to pursue a registered keeper once they have the name & address of the driver, which they did in MONTH/YEAR.

I had definitely named my friend as the driver and she even did the POPLA appeal - POPLA contacted me for my permission to speak to her regarding the appeal (appeal was rejected of course). She gave her name and address for the appeal. But I can't recall if I her address was ever given directly to Civil Enforcement - although they would have her address from the details from the mobile payment app when she paid for the parking.

Coupon-mad

OK so say that (about her doing the POPLA Appeal) in your defence. Add that it is unlawful for a parking firm to continue to pursue a registered keeper once they have the name & address of the driver, which they did from the POPLA appeal stage in MONTH/YEAR.