Landlord not returning deposit - Help

Peter_Richards1000

Hiya;

I sublet an entire house, under a sublet tenancy agreement, and left in December. We had the entire house, the sublandlord is a company, who I believe lets off the actual owner (who also owns the company).

We are owed 1 months rent, totalling 1800. The landlord is not returning it due to broken crockery and marks on a wooden floor, which he is having to get 'professionally cleaned'.

We dispute the marks were caused by us and also the cost of the crockery, which he is putting in the 100s of pounds.

There was no check-in inventory made, nor exit inventory.

We are a family and this is a lot of money to us. The LL has now passed to his lawyer and is saying we need to pay his legal fees, which was a clause in the sublet agreement.

I am unsure what to do, we cant afford our own lawyer, the whole situation is extremely stressful and we are struggling mentally and financially.

We have obtained some advice from shelter but we are fearful of going to any small claims court to argue our case with the 'damages' and/or the non-protection of the deposit, due to the cost of lawyers fees. I am also unsure if 

A) The deposit needs to be protected if a sublet
B ) If fines to the LL for non protection go to the tenant or elsewhere

Any ideas? Would anyone be able to recommend a friendly solicitor who can help in these circumstances?

thankyou

Pete

_Penny_Dreadful

Peter_Richards1000 said:

Hiya;

I sublet an entire house, under a sublet tenancy agreement, and left in December. We had the entire house, the sublandlord is a company, who I believe lets off the actual owner (who also owns the company).

We are owed 1 months rent, totalling 1800. The landlord is not returning it due to broken crockery and marks on a wooden floor, which he is having to get 'professionally cleaned'.

We dispute the marks were caused by us and also the cost of the crockery, which he is putting in the 100s of pounds.

There was no check-in inventory made, nor exit inventory.

We are a family and this is a lot of money to us. The LL has now passed to his lawyer and is saying we need to pay his legal fees, which was a clause in the sublet agreement.

I am unsure what to do, we cant afford our own lawyer, the whole situation is extremely stressful and we are struggling mentally and financially.

We have obtained some advice from shelter but we are fearful of going to any small claims court to argue our case with the 'damages' and/or the non-protection of the deposit, due to the cost of lawyers fees. I am also unsure if 

A) The deposit needs to be protected if a sublet
B ) If fines to the LL for non protection go to the tenant or elsewhere

Any ideas? Would anyone be able to recommend a friendly solicitor who can help in these circumstances?

thankyou

Pete

Assuming you are in England then it sounds like there was an AST in place irrespective of you being a subtenant.  This means your landlord had a legal obligation to protect your deposit and provide you with the prescribed information within 30 days of receiving said deposit.

When a landlord fails to protect the deposit you can take them to court and the court must award you a value of between 1 to 3 times the value of the deposit as compensation.

Shelter has template letters you can use so you don't really need to use a solicitor to get your money back and before you go sending those letters check all 3 government backed schemes to make sure your deposit is not protected.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/check_your_tenancy_deposit_is_protected

Something you've written confuses me, you say you are owed one month's rent so which is it, are you owed rent or the deposit?  Did you actually pay a deposit or is this rent taken in advance that you are due back?

RHemmings

This sounds to me very much like the 'bad old days' before deposit protection. OP - I hope this turns out well for you and hope that you will keep us updated throughout the process and tell us the final result. 

I am vaguely wondering about wording in the OP's contract which may try to avoid the deposit protection requirement with magic words. (Which are quite often not legal.) The language concerning being 'owed rent' looks slightly indicative of that to me. 

propertyrental

A) Yes. Should be protected

B ) Yes penalty goes to you

Have you checked if it is protected? Check each scheme.

If yes, make a claim to the scheme for arbitration.

If no, use the courts - no need for solicitors and you'll get the court fees back.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/check_your_tenancy_deposit_is_protected

TripleH

To add, that there was no check in report done means the Landlord will struggle to argue any damages weren't there already / aren't reasonable wear and tear.

No check out report means you can dispute any claims by asking for evidence of condition.

Did the property have gas and did it have a valid gas / electric safety certificate?

Check the schemes and get back here with what they say.

Peter_Richards1000

Thank you everyone, its getting late but wanted to reply;

The money owed is the deposit we paid, which was one month.

The house is in Northern Irland, are there different rules here compared to England with regards to tenancies and deposits? I have checked the schemes here and they say the deposit isn't on their systems.

There was no gas. It had oil. No idea if the appropriate safety certs for oil and gas, how do I find out?

Some further questions:

If I settle with the LL on his proposed costs, to avoid needing to go small claims court, can I then subsequently apply to court for the non-protection of the deposit compensation? I suggest this route since I am very scared of going to court regarding his costs and losing, despite there being no inventory made, and then being liable for his legal fees, which could be 1000s.

The deposit compensation seems a clearer outcome...?

In NI does the deposit compensation still go to the tenant, or is it a fine that goes....to the government?

In the case that the deposit is protected, maybe via the master tenancy...?, is the lack of notification to me of the account still grounds for compensation?


So many questions, it is all a muddle to me, but feel slightly less stressed now, thankyou again.

Peter

propertyrental

Sorry - I'm not familiar with NI tenancy law, but a quick online search:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/private-rent-and-tenancies#toc-8

Re the penalty, it appears this is retained by the District Council:

https://www.tdsnorthernireland.com/public/support/penalties-for-failing-to-comply-with-tenancy-deposit-protection-regulations-april-2019.pdf

Article 5B (11) of the 2006 Order says that “any person who contravenes any other
provision of this Article is guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to a fine
not exceeding £20,000”.
Article 68 (3) makes it clear that proceedings for an offence under Article 5B (11) of the
2006 Order may be instituted by the appropriate district council. If a tenant suspects an
offence has been committed they will need to contact the district council where the tenancy is situated to take legal action against the landlord.

(or) the district council may serve
on that person a form offering the opportunity of paying a fixed penalty rather than face
prosecution

The fixed penalty in relation to an offence of not protecting the deposit or supplying the
Prescribed Information will be an amount equal to three times the amount of that tenancy
deposit. If the case goes to Court and the landlord is convicted the fine will be up to
£20,000.

Any monies obtained by the district council will be retained by the council. Offences will
be prosecuted in the Magistrates Courts

penners324

Go back to the land lord and state you want the deposit back in full or you will report to the district council as per the above.

If he carries on threatening his solicitors then do refer to the district court.

Do not pay him anything 

RHemmings

penners324 said:

Go back to the land lord and state you want the deposit back in full or you will report to the district council as per the above.

If he carries on threatening his solicitors then do refer to the district court.

Do not pay him anything 

I would be careful about couching it as a 'pay me or else'. 

if it was me, I would send a letter asking for the details of the scheme that the deposit is protected under. And, include a statement in the letter that (I) believe that there are no justifications for deductions, and that (I) wish to challenge any deductions with the tenancy deposit scheme provider. But, mention that you have not been given details of the provider. 

Peter_Richards1000

Thanks again everyone.

I think I'll take the more careful route.

Question: Might there be a time limit for 

A).Asking for deposit back and arguing over deductions
. Notifying council the deposit wasn't protected?

I've many stressful things in my life at the moment and ideally planning to stagger how I deal with them, one by one, to make them more manageable.

Thankyou

Pete

TripleH

I'm not sure about time limit.

BUT if you can send the letter (with some form of proof of postage to keep as evidence), you have got the ball rolling and it makes it easier to have a little break and come back to chase as you now have a formal tangible point in which you requested your money.