Denied Council Tax Benefit whilst on furlough and then on Universal Credit

PhoenixFlames

Hi.  I have a few questions around an issue for my child.  They are disabled and currently receive Universal Credit and in the last few months have just started to receive additional money under capability for work rules.  I assist with various matters for her as her illness is now seriously life-impacting and causes significant hardship.  

Several times in the last few years, they have spoken with the local council to claim Council Tax support.  Been told they are eligible, applied and then been denied.  Conversations with them have been rather unpleasant including one where she was told to go to a food bank so that she could pay her bill.  A complaint led nowhere as the call "could not be located".  2018/19/20 each time she was threatened with court for non-payment despite her supplying documentation of student status.  They seem very disorganised.  I cannot tell you how draining this has been.  The one phone conversation I had during this time, I was told I could simply pay it to "deal with the issue".  

First bill 2021/22:  She was furloughed from part time job during lockdown etc.  They applied a charge against her furlough income and it was assessed she could only pay £30 a month as a garnish.  

2022/23: Now on universal credit as illness had progressed and was unable to work.  Rang again, applied.  Was told no eligibility and denied.  Had several conversations.  No new bill issued.  It seems at this point to have gone quiet for the rest of the year.  And yes, at this point it should have been followed up, but considering the seriousness of her illness at that time, it was forgotten with no new correspondance.  Trying to stay alive was the focus.   

2023/24: Now new letters have arrived for the above and last year.  Full payment is requested for both years and I fully expect one to arrive for 2024/25 shortly.  She has now been assessed as unfit for work and various disability benefits have started after a 6 month delay. 

There will of course be a phone call on Monday to the council tax office, but what do we do if we are turned down again for something that should clearly be applied.  There seems to be a fundamental disconnect between the people spoken to on the phone and what happens when the paperwork goes in.  I have seen the reams of paperwork that have been submitted and sent.  We have proof in the form of bank statements and P60s.

I give her some money each week in order to pay her heating bills.  I have checked online with HMRC and this does not attract tax etc, but may impact eligibility for some benefits.  However, her income has remained less than £6k per year for each year in question and at times has been as low as £4.5k. 

We will attempt to speak with Citizen's Advice Bureau as well.    The council does not publish anywhere the specifics of how they calculate or consider someone eligible for this support, making it very hard to point to requirements they should be adhering to.  The page is full of "may" and "possible to claim".

I've just re-read my post and the whole thing seems almost unbelievable, but please any help or advice would be welcome, or support services that are adept at speaking with council tax departments when the application process has so thoroughly failed.  

Brie

Check if your council has anything to write off past tax bills due to ongoing health issues.  Sometimes this might apply only to those with a mental health issue but there's often a case to be made that someone with ongoing physical health issues may therefore also have MH issues. 

It will depend on your council of course but in most cases including a letter from a doctor supporting the various health issues will be required. 

fyi - if a doctor (more likely the receptionist or practice manager) says that you have to pay for these sorts of letter or for completing forms in these circumstances please mention that the British Medical Association forbids charges to be made for any medical practiner supplying this kind of information.  

OutdoorQueen

My understanding is that each council runs its own scheme for council tax benefit / reduction , and therefore the rules can vary between areas.  It is not a universal set of rules for the whole country.   

It might help to know which council you are trying to claim from as someone might live in that area and be able to advise further.    

peteuk

The first mistake you make is the assumption that this goes away.  Sorry if that sounds harsh…
The second mistake is the believe of no new bill…

So where and who is she living with?  

Council tax is levelled against your property, so therefore not at the individual.  It is based on two adults living in the property and runs April to April.  Where is 2020/21… was she paying then?

Single occupancy gets a discount.
Working part time suggests low income, so potential for a discount ( depending on the whole household situation)
Furlough paid 80% of their wage without going to work so a decrease in wage but as above working part time. I would also say furlough ended Sept 2021, so at max she was furloughed for half the year.

Claiming UC doesnt automatically get a council tax discount, you have to apply and it does take into account many aspects other than just UC.  Equally UC pays help with housing but not CT.

So you can not back date a claim for discount for council tax without good reason, it could be argued that having claimed back in 2021/2022 you have no grounds to suggest a good reason not to claim.  Equally it could be flipped and suggested rejection put you off.

But the debt still sits there…each year it adds and adds unless your paying it, or get it discounted.  But even after discount it still needs paying.

If claiming PIP it will be back dated to the point of the claim starting, other benefits will be calculated on her fit notes provided.

CAB is a great start, and hopefully it will get sorted soon.

PhoenixFlames

2021 was still covered by student status.  The low income claims were put in during the following years and she was deemed "non-eligible".  Hopefully we can demonstrate that she should not have been denied it and therefore should not be liable.  Although there was some ignoring of the issue briefly, you honestly can't give someone money you don't have no matter what they threaten you with, and when you're in hospital it's about the last thing on the list of things you need to deal with right now.  

Heating bills alone (needed for health) were £120 a month at one point and I genuinely do not believe someone at that time with an income of £320 a month should have been asked to pay £140 council tax.  When she was garnished they assessed the maximum she could afford to pay was £30 - which makes me wonder why they ever thought the council tax WAS payable.  She does have the single person discount and lives on her own having a stubborn independant streak a mile wide.  

Her health issues are very serious.  She has 15 years of notes from various specialist neurologists, there is no cure, only management.  I guess my concern is that without sight of the mechanisms of how these decisions are taken, and who the right people to talk to are, we may again go round in circles.  As you can imagine, the stress levels are unwelcome.  At this point just an accurate bill, based on correct entitlements that should have been applied at the correct time is really all we want.  

Murphybear

The advice for going to a food bank is not really helpful and it is not a long term solution.  You can’t just turn up and get free food.  The Citizens Advice website has some very helpful advice.

Theres an organisation called Fair Share which operates a little differently.   They get surplus fresh food as well as other things from supermarkets and it is distributed through local networks.  Website is fareshare.co.uk.  Our local one operates on a Saturday morning, I am a volunteer.  You don’t have to be referred by anyone, you turn up, fill out a form, provide some ID and one of the volunteers will help you to a selection of foods from what is available on the day.  

Our local one gets a lot of cat/dog food which helps as many of our regulars have pets.  An anonymous donor gave money to an award winning local butcher to supply frozen chickens each week for about 2 months around the Christmas period.      In the summer there was tons of fresh fruit, mainly strawberries and blueberries.  We never know what’s going to turn up each week until the van from the nearest distribution centre arrives.  

Brie

Lots of food banks have fresh and frozen food, not just tins of beans and bags of pasta.  And there should be no shame in going to the food bank if that's what it takes to make it to the end of the month.  Don't forget about OLIO and community fridges for lots of excellent stuff.  Takes a bit of doing but if it works for you/her then grand.  This of course doesn't make it right for someone to simply push anyone off to the a food bank rather than doing what is actually right for them. 

Check with the utility company and see if there is a social tariff or a discount for those that have to have heat/water etc more than the average due to health issues.  

And the mention of neurologists suggests MH issues and that takes me back to my previous post about getting doctors' notes on to her council tax file and the rest too frankly.  Once an organisation recognises that there is health issue they are obliged to take that into account when dealing with the account holder.  Whether it's how they deal with them as an individual or how they manage their account will differ for each organisation.  

Alice_Holt

Some thoughts:

i)  I would suggest doing a Subject Access Request to get all her council records / documentation from the date of the first application.

ii) As has been said CT support schemes are local. If you search your council's website you should find a detailed guide to your local scheme re eligibility and how it's calculated.
Because of this you can't rely on national benefit calculators to give you an accurate CTs number.
(However someone on UC and PIP living alone would expect to get help with CT if their savings are below £6k)

iii)  It is possible to appeal against CT support decisions, the decision letter should outline her appeal rights.
https://valuationtribunal.gov.uk/council-tax-appeals/council-tax-reduction-appeal/#:~:text=To make an appeal you,the date on the decision.

iv)  When corresponding with the council, also involve her local ward councillor and keep copies / notes of all communication.  Written correspondence is best (esp if you go to appeal).
The involvement of a councillor is more likely to focus minds at your council and get you relevant info and a resolution..  

v) Do check any award (or refusal) calculation carefully. Check that her income is correct, and that the council haven't made errors or included non-existent income.
Also be sure that you follow up the application with any documents / information requested by the council, they will have a time limit for these and not responding will cause the application to lapse.  

vi) She may also wish to get debt advice from Cit A, as CTs can only be backdated 3 months (from memory), so any previous periods CT due will still be owing.  I'd be inclined to make a new CTrs application asap. 
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/council-tax/applying-for-council-tax-reduction/

 I'm assuming that she doesn't have savings of more than £6k, and is in receipt of PIP ?

You giving her money for heating bills should not affect CTr eligibility. 

PhoenixFlames

Some great advice here everyone re food banks etc and it's very much appreciated.  Thanks for the suggestion of getting her health issues lodged onto her CT file Brie and I have taken careful note in particular of the steps you have outlined Alice.

She was only on UC when first denied.  It has taken 6 months to get the initial additional payment as unfit for work from DWP (which isn't backdated sadly) and the paperwork is being submitted for PIP now we have a full medical writeup giving a complete overview of history and where she is now.  She has no savings.  

She has a serious physical health condition to do with her brain and yes, living with it has indeed caused mental health problems as well.  It's quite horrid and not something any of us would want.  I'm not going to go into huge details but the mortality rate is something that keeps me up at night.  

You've all been very kind.  

Brie

if you PM me I'll try to find the documents I referred to and will ping them back.  Might be helpful to know what council you're dealing with and I can do a better search.

PhoenixFlames

Hi all.  We've heard back from the council tax office and they have advised that any income over £74.05 a week means that full council tax is due.  They have also stated this is regardless of any/all outgoings which are not included (inc rent, heating, food and her additional requirements due to her disability).  Its most annoying because she just had to fill in a huge long form listing them all.  

It seems to be positioned that anyone on a low income will receive benefits to push them to a minimum amount which then makes them not eligible for council tax support.  £74.05 is just below the amount received for the lowest amount of universal credit as a single under 25 year old for example.  

They've confirmed that anyone on £301 per month is liable for £125 of that to go to council tax in full.