Been asked to file a false crime report unless I won't get my refund.

ThumbRemote

Okell said:

midger0520 said:

Thank you for all the feedback, however some of the questions are now personal and a bit stupid (see above).

This conversation is now closed.

I suggest you read all of this thread - from the beginning to the end:  Amazon want me to contact the police instead of refunding me - Page 5 — MoneySavingExpert Forum

That person (finally) did what Amazon were asking for and got their money back.

Unless you are being unreasonably pedantic about this or have a particular axe to grind I fail to understand why you can't just file a report with the police.  You don't have to file a report that isn't true.  You just tell them what you said in your opening post.   That you received an email from Amazon saying that the item had been delivered to the resident but that when you got to your doorstep there was nothing there.

Ask the police to explain to you, as the victim of an obvious crime, why that isn't evidence of a crime.  (Or do you think that's a stupid question?)

The parcel was never delivered to the OP. It was not stolen from their property. They have no idea whether it was delivered elsewhere. 

Exactly what crime are they reporting?

Okell

ThumbRemote said:

... Exactly what crime are they reporting?

Before I answer that question I'll explain why I think this might be a problem of the OP's own making.

I don't know exactly what amazon told him, but he says that amazon told him to "file a report with the police saying the item has been stolen from my address".  I suspect that whoever told him this did not see too much significance in those last four words - certainly not as much as the OP and the police have

The police have apparently refused to accept such a report on the grounds that nothing has been stolen from his address - although I don't understand how they can be certain of this.  Apparently the OP's solicitor agrees with the police view.

I suspect that the OP has taken too literally what amazon may (or may not) have said about being stolen from his address and has seized on these words and insisted that something has been stolen "from his address".  He should simply have gone to the police and explained the salient points from his first post:

1.  Tracker tells him that item is just about to be delivered.  OP goes to door and sees amazon van stationary down the road.  Goes back in house because disabled and can't wait at door.

2.  Almost immediately gets email confirming that item left with resident,

3.  Goes to door expecting to see parcel on doorstep,  Nothing there.  Sees van driving off

4.  Contacts amazon.  Told scanning error and that driver will be back.

5.  Driver doesn't come back

6.  OP checks with neighbours to no avail

7.  OP has several exchanges with Amazon who eventually tell him that the parcel has been stolen and they ask him to file a police report etc etc.

That would have been a factual account of what had happened and could not be said to be "fake" or "false".  So I suspect that the OP must have given a somewhat different account to the police and to his solicitor.

The police of course will not want to issue a crime reference number because they have no hope of clearing it up and it will make their stats look even worse than they alredy are.  So they'll ususlly fob the complainant off with "there's no evidence of a crime here, sir" or "it's a civil matter, sir".  Although I must say this is the first time that I've heard them accusing the complainant of making a fake or false report!

And yes it is a civil matter - but there's nothing to indicate it isn't also a criminal matter, and I'd suggest there's sufficient evidence of a probable crime here for the police go do their job properly and record it as such for the OP to pass onto Amazon.

You ask what crime they are reporting.  I'd say theft.

The OP has bought a bit of IT kit from Amazon.  I'll assume he's paid for it.  Ownership of it has transferred to him for the purposes of the criminal law.  (Yes amazon are still responsible for it under civil law up to the point that it is delivered into the physical possession of the OP, but that's irrelevant in respect of any criminal offences that may have been committed)

The OP does not have this bit of kit that he owns.  It has gone "walkabout" somewhere.  Whether that somewhere is from his doorstep, or from the delivery van, or from some amazon distribution point is of no concern to the OP and neither should it be to the police.  The point is that the person who should have possession of it doesn't.  Somebody else does

I would suggest there is ample prima facie evidence in what the OP has told us to indicate that his bit of kit has been appropriated by a person or persons unknown.  Might have been a neighbour.  Might have been an opportunistic passerby.  Might have been the delivery driver.  Might have been a warehouse worker.  Might have been anyone - it doesn't matter.

And yes - it's still possible that the item has simply gone astray in some innocent fashion.  But just because that possibility can't be excluded doesn't mean that there isn't also evidence of a crime.

If I were the OP I'd go back to the police and insist on them doing their job properly and giving him a crime reference number.

I also think the OP's solicitor is mistaken in giving this advice:  "The solicitor has also told me the item was never in my possession and it is for Amazon or the courier to make a report, if indeed the item is stolen and not simply lost".

The victim here is the OP.  It's his property once he paid for it - not Amazon's.  I don't know of any law that prevents the actual owner of a piece of property from reporting its theft.  That would be bonkers.  Indeed, I don't know of any law that says only a victim of crime can report it - which seems to be what the solicitor is saying.

prowla

It was never in your possession and you have no knowledge that the item was delivered to you.

Therefore you cannot report it stolen.

The delivery was Amazon's responsibility and the delivery service was their agent, not yours.

You are simply the innocent party who did not receive the item.

Amazon's advice is just plain bad; was it someone in an overseas call centre?

Grumpy_chap

Two things that don't seem to have been confirmed:
1. Does the notification from Amazon that the item was delivered have a photo of the item at the OP's (or a nieghbour's) door?
2. Did the item require a passcode for delivery?

Vectis

Grumpy_chap said:

Two things that don't seem to have been confirmed:
1. Does the notification from Amazon that the item was delivered have a photo of the item at the OP's (or a nieghbour's) door?
2. Did the item require a passcode for delivery?

And the answers to those questions we will probably never know because the op seems to have gone off in a huff!

MobileSaver

Okell said:

The police have apparently refused to accept such a report on the grounds that nothing has been stolen from his address - although I don't understand how they can be certain of this.

I agree. 

Initially Amazon claimed the goods had been delivered but apparently later suggested they hadn't so there's clearly uncertainty there. *

Similarly, the OP didn't wait and watch at the door for the driver but only checked for the delivery after receiving an email which may have been 1, 2 or more minutes after the delivery was made which is plenty of time for an opportunistic thief (or of course a dishonest driver.)

The unfortunate problem here is that the OP appears to have told the police categorically that it was not stolen from his property when in fact, as much as they strongly suspect this, they do not know with certainty as they were busy using their computer in another room when the goods were allegedly delivered and then stolen.

The pragmatic solution is to go back to the police and file the report based on Amazon's email confirming it was delivered but it wasn't there when you went to collect it. If challenged on your previous discussions then you explain that you've now realised the delivery email you got can't have been quite as instantaneous as you thought. (While many are instant, I've routinely had delivery emails arrive as much as 20 mins after delivery and in some case not until the next day.)

* A lot depends on exactly what Amazon subsequently told you. If you were originally told it had been delivered but then later told it hadn't, how do Amazon explain squaring that circle? For example, did you browbeat them into accepting you personally had never received it rather than it had never been delivered to your property?

born_again

From OP
Watched the Amazon delivery on the online tracker. Tracker tells me the van has pulled up about 100m from my house and I’m next stop.
I unlocked the door and looked up the street. A grey van is parked.
I returned to my computer and wait for the doorbell.
Almost immediately I receive an email saying the item has been delivered to the resident.

Later.
Amazon asked me to check with my neighbours. I asked if they knew which one, they said they did not know.

Yet OP had seen van outside a house.

I receive an email saying Amazon has investigated and say the item has been stolen.

Yet OP has email saying delivered.
As we know, items such as computer monitors require a code to be given to the driver. So Amazon must have proof of delivery. 

midger0520

@Okell

All your questions are answered in my previous posts.

midger0520

@Okell - Quote "The victim here is the OP.  It's his property once he paid for it - not Amazon's"

This is not correct. Please read the original posts.