PCN for parking on own property, from parking company contracted by building management company.

FUDbyDesign

Hi,

I’m a leaseholder of a flat with a share of the freehold.  The building management company has recently appointed Capital Car Park Control to handle the parking situation in the communal grounds, due to long-standing complaints about the parking behaviour of certain residents.  For my part, I park on the tarmac area directly in front of my own garage unit but nobody has ever complained about it in the last 4 years that I've been living here – it’s the last unit in the row of garages, and parking there doesn’t in any way impede the movement of other vehicles.  The previous owner used to do the same.  My lease document does mention the arrangements for vehicular access to/from the garages, but it does not specifically mention the use of a third-party company to enforce rules and apply fines.  Moreover, the rules are new and I did not agree to them.  Anyway I received a PCN from said company yesterday, with all the usual conditions (pay early for reduced fine, etc.)  Without the express written consent of every leaseholder in the block, can the management company decide on a parking policy and appoint an external company to fine “transgressors”? 

Debszzzz2

Do you think that the imposition of a third party, unregulated, private parking company changing your unfettered rights to park according to your lease is an alteration of that lease, and, if so, has the MA/landowner complied with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 Section 37 5(a) or 5(b)?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/37

Coupon-mad

I’m a leaseholder of a flat with a share of the freehold.  The building management company has recently appointed Capital Car Park Control to handle the parking situation in the communal grounds, due to long-standing complaints about the parking behaviour of certain residents.

But they can't impose this detrimental regime by just listening to some residents and not others. There had to be proper consensus, and agreement of a high majority, by law.

The Leasehold Advisory Service may be useful.

Here's a recent decision which mentions the fact that a MA cannot make decisions that could cause detriment or costs by listening to only some leaseholders:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62ecd2dbd3bf7f75b4b5ff77/20Apr22_Decision__9_Saw_Mill_Way_N16_6AN.pdf

FUDbyDesign

Debszzzz2 said:

Do you think that the imposition of a third party, unregulated, private parking company changing your unfettered rights to park according to your lease is an alteration of that lease, and, if so, has the MA/landowner complied with the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 Section 37 5(a) or 5(b)?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1987/31/section/37

Coupon-mad said:

I’m a leaseholder of a flat with a share of the freehold.  The building management company has recently appointed Capital Car Park Control to handle the parking situation in the communal grounds, due to long-standing complaints about the parking behaviour of certain residents.

But they can't impose this detrimental regime by just listening to some residents and not others. There had to be proper consensus, and agreement of a high majority, by law.

The Leasehold Advisory Service may be useful.

Here's a recent decision which mentions the fact that a MA cannot make decisions that could cause detriment or costs by listening to only some leaseholders:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/62ecd2dbd3bf7f75b4b5ff77/20Apr22_Decision__9_Saw_Mill_Way_N16_6AN.pdf

Thanks @Debszzzz2 and @Coupon-mad. 

I understand the misuse of the (3) visitor parking bays was discussed at the AGM in September 2023, which unfortunately I was unable to attend.  I have still not received the meeting minutes despite multiple reminders, so I don't know about about the level of attendance or support for any proposals.  But I was not consulted afterwards, which seems pretty inconsiderate. 

So two things have been implemented: 
1. A parking permit system for the visitor parking bays. All residents received a pack of visitor permits.
2. Parking management by Capital Car Park Control, with sign boards posted in multiple locations.  

Apart from the fact that I wasn't consulted, my issue is with the fact that the core complaint from residents that led to this action was the abuse of the visitor parking facilities - which was only being perpetrated by two specific residents. Indeed, in the correspondence I've received from the management company, nothing at all was mentioned about parking in other areas of the grounds.  

So this is overkill.  Also, who knows how much extra they will charge on the building maintenance.  In fact, perhaps the issue here is more with the management company than with the parking management company.  Maybe I should move this to a different forum...?  (I won't be paying the "fine" though.)  

Umkomaas

Maybe I should move this to a different forum...? 

You still need to be on this forum while being pursued by a PPC. However, you could ask more MA-specific questions on another property related forum. But while Capital Car Park Control is involved, keep this thread 'live' here. 

Debszzzz2

How many dwellings at this location? Have read of section 37 of Landlord and Tenant Act I linked you to. Is what is happening to you considered a variation on what your lease says you must or must not do in regards to you parking rights?

Ask for the results of the ballot that took place amongst the leaseholders. They must provide the evidence of the ballot and the result. You already know that nothing of the sort took place and the MA, by altering your rights as per your lease have breached the Act. Not only that, they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents, the PPC, who have issued you a PCN when they have no legal right to do so. They have breached your GDPR by requesting your details from the DVLA.

The list goes on. No landlord or their agent, the MA, can vary your lease without going through a very specific process. In this case it sounds like someone is taking liberties.

Umkomaas

In this case it sounds like someone is taking liberties.

.... or are completely clueless about how the law works and have been totally taken in by the PPC's offer of free enforcement (and maybe a little backhander), and thinking it all makes sense to them, so no need to be studying the fine detail of the Landlord & Tenant Act!

FUDbyDesign

Debszzzz2 said:

How many dwellings at this location? Have read of section 37 of Landlord and Tenant Act I linked you to. Is what is happening to you considered a variation on what your lease says you must or must not do in regards to you parking rights?

Ask for the results of the ballot that took place amongst the leaseholders. They must provide the evidence of the ballot and the result. You already know that nothing of the sort took place and the MA, by altering your rights as per your lease have breached the Act. Not only that, they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents, the PPC, who have issued you a PCN when they have no legal right to do so. They have breached your GDPR by requesting your details from the DVLA.

The list goes on. No landlord or their agent, the MA, can vary your lease without going through a very specific process. In this case it sounds like someone is taking liberties.

Thank you, @Debszzzz2 . There are 30 flats in my block.  I did look through Section 37 of the Landlord and Tenancy Act 1987, and personally I do consider this matter a variation of the lease agreement.  As for parking rights, my lease does not mention them specifically.  It does have verbiage about ingress to/egress from the garages but not about the consequences of impeding it (which, in the case of how I park my car, is not relevant anyway.)  I will ask for the ballot results.  

Regarding Sections 37 parts 5(b) of the Landlord and Tenancy Act 1987, am I right in understanding that 75% or more (i.e., 23 out of 30) of the leaseholders would have to be in agreement for the motion to vary the lease to succeed?  And would 100% of the leaseholders have to have been polled?  

Debszzzz2

An application to vary the lease can only be made as long as no more than 3 of the 30 leaseholders do not object to the variation and at least 23 out of the 30 agree to the variation.

So, there's two conditions that have to be met in order to be able to apply to have the lease varied.

D_P_Dance

Read this

UKPC issuing PCN's on OUR PRIVATE BUSINESS LAND without a contract - off to court - UKPC liable for trespass - **SUCCESS** - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

FUDbyDesign

Well, I posted on the Housing-related forum but the responses were quite negative/dismissive about my dispute regarding the lease situation.  So I am parking that side of things for now (no pun intended) to deal with my immediate concern which is the PCNs.  In proceeding with the appeals process, I understand from the Newbies sticky that the appeal should be done through the PPC's website.  However, reading through the template letter of appeal, some of the wording in the below two paragraphs don't apply.  The PPC have provided close-up photos of my vehicle, signage, etc. Should I just omit the bits in bold?  

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.


Furthermore, the PPC website is forcing me to select a "Reason for appealing the charge notice" and I have to choose from one of the following:
A. I have a valid ticket/permit for the car park/site which was clearly displayed
B. My vehicle is permitted to park and is on the vehicle exemption list
C. I had a Pay & Display ticket but may have entered the wrong or incomplete registration number
D. My vehicle was not in the car park stated at the time the contravention occurred
E. I had displayed my blue badge
F. I was authorised to park
G. I did not receive the Parking Charge Notice on my vehicle
H. I was not sent the Parking Charge Notice in the post
I. I was stopping to ask for directions / Check directions
J. I was not aware that there were parking restrictions at the parking area
K. I was not aware I had incurred a Parking Charge Notice
L. My permit fell on the floor / seat
M. I am waiting for my permit in the post
N. I did not know a Permit/Pay & Display voucher was required
O. I did not park at the stated time
P. There was nowhere else to park
Q. My Permit fell down / the wind blew if down

Should I select "F" or does it not matter?  

Thanks again.