Gladstones Solicitors Letter Before Claim

mikeellery

Hi there,
We have just received a Letter Before Claim from Gladstones Solicitors which relates to a parking fine my Son received whilst in Cornwall on the 7th October. He is out of the UK until May and so I need to know what we need to do and am relatively clueless. It was dated the 12th February but we just received it today (21st). Any advice would be gratefully received.  

Coupon-mad

It's not a fine.  Easy to defend.  No risk.

Addressed to your son?

He needs to buy time by using the reply for LBC stage, shown in the NEWBIES thread.

He can just use G's portal online but NOT UNTIL Monday 11th March, which means his extension of time will take the case through to April.

Tell him:

DO NOT PAY

THERE IS NO RISK BY DOING THIS.

DO NOT SAY HE IS AWAY.

DO NOT REPLY IN FEBRUARY.

See my signature.  No need for a link.

mikeellery

Hi again,
The letter is addressed to my Son.
Would this reply below be sent in February or do you mean to delay sending this until March?
Do you mind if I just check with you that I have found the correct reply below:
Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.xxxxxxxx

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

The car park was full on the day in question, and the queues getting into the car park, then looking for a space and then exiting the car park exceeded the time allocation of this site. Therefore no ticket was bought as no parking space was found.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.!Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Thanks in advance and best wishes.

Le_Kirk

That is the initial appeal letter and your son is beyond that now.  You should go to the NEWBIE sticky second post - the LBC stage - as pointed out by @Coupon-mad.  BTW do not sign off letters to parking companies with "best wishes" the proper closing salutation for a letter starting "Dear sirs" is "yours faithfully".  Unless you were saying best wishes to the posters on the forum, in which case, thanks!

Coupon-mad

mikeellery said:

Hi again,
The letter is addressed to my Son.
Would this reply below be sent in February or do you mean to delay sending this until March?
Do you mind if I just check with you that I have found the correct reply below:
Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.xxxxxxxx

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car and I will complain to the landowner about the matter if it is not cancelled.

The car park was full on the day in question, and the queues getting into the car park, then looking for a space and then exiting the car park exceeded the time allocation of this site. Therefore no ticket was bought as no parking space was found.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in!ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis.!Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers before they park.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013. I believe the driver may well be eligible for cancellation and you have omitted clear information about the process for complaints including a geographical address of the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. You must either rely on the POFA 2012 and offer me a POPLA code, or cancel the charge.

I have kept proof of submission of this appeal and look forward to your reply.

Thanks in advance and best wishes.

Nope and nope.  None of that was what I advised and I was very clear on the date in March that he replies.  And not with that.

He's not at appeal stage - I did not say to read the first post of the NEWBIES thread - and I said exactly which response he must send online on 11th March.

This is what I said:

"using the reply for LBC stage".

mikeellery

Hi again,
I cannot find the NEWBIE sticky 2nd post, could you kindly cut and paste the link for me? Appreciate your time and effort.
Best wishes,
Mike 

mikeellery

OK so I believe I found the correct section. 
Please see my adapted version of a response below. Understood with reference to sending this on the 11th March. Please can you confirm that this is sufficient as a response?

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for your letter of 12th February 2024.

 

You have sent a Letter Before Claim. However, your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and, fails to provide photographic evidence. It does not even say what the cause of action is. Nor does it contain any mention of what evidence your client intends to rely on, or enclose copies of such evidence.

 

 

This action on the part of your client is a clear breach of its pre-action obligations set out in the Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct, with which as solicitors you must surely be familiar (and with which your client, a serial litigator of small claims, must also be familiar). As you (and your client) must know, the Practice Direction binds all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time.

 

 

Nobody, including your client, is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction. Your client cannot refuse to provide the relevant information until this gets to court.

 

I require your client to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

 

1. an explanation of the cause of action

2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

4. what the details of the claim are (where it is claimed the car was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated, what contractual breach (if any) is being claimed)

5. a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim

6. a copy of any alleged contract with the driver

7. a plan showing where any signs were displayed

8. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

9. If they have added anything on to the original charge, what that represents and how it has been calculated.

 

I am clearly entitled to this information under paragraphs 6(a) and 6(c) of the Practice Direction. I also need it in order to comply with my own obligations under paragraph 6(b).

 

If your client does not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) – Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on your client and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and (c) and 16. I will draw to the court the fact that I have expressly requested this information since as early as [date or month/year of first request] yet your client has refused to provide it, saying that it will not do so until this matter reaches the court.

 

 

Until your client has complied with its obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for your client to issue proceedings. Should your client do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.

 

Yours faithfully,

Coupon-mad

No that's really old & out of date and I've no idea how you found it.  Archive stuff!

Just go to the NEWBIES thread and read the second post there.  No link needed - see my signature.

mikeellery

Wow I truly appreciate your time. Is there a way I can send a contribution to help fund your time?
I now think I have sussed it please see below:

Dear Sirs,

 

Your Ref. ############

Proposed Legal Proceedings

Claimant: xxxxxx xxxxxxxx Ltd

 

I refer to your letter of claim.

 

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:

[Correct address here]

 

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

 

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

 

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

 

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver (see VCS v Edward, 2023).

 

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable conduct”

 

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

 

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

 

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

 

Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

Yes that's it but he needs to string this out to get past or near his return to the UK date, which is why he DOESN'T send that till 11th March.