Experians Conflict of Interests

991GTS

Today I decided to apply for a British Airways Amex Card. The purpose of this was to shift my business spending and acrue points and also flight reward vouchers. The initial limit is £1200 and the application process online. I also had a referrel link to get a sign on bonus. I was declined!

I received an email from Amex confirming this and suggesting I contact Experian if I had questions. I could also call Amex so I did. They said it was Experians decision.

As I have an Experian account I logged on. Credit score still showed as good and as usual I was offered cards as Experian are also a Credit Broker. I thought lets apply for a balance transfer card. Lets pick one thats not pre-approved. I was duly redirected and surprise, surprise I had said 0% card within 5 minutes with a £5000 limit.

No doubt Experian got a fee for declining me. No doubt they also got a fee for the referral which they credit checked. Mmmm. I smell a furry rodent.

Companies who offer credit approval services should not be allowed to also act as credit brokers.

MeteredOut

Whoever told you it was Experian's decision for your decline was wrong. Experian provide BA Amex with your credit history, and BA Amex make the application decision.

A "good" credit score (whatever that might mean) on sites like Experian is merely a indicator of your financial stability; different card providers have different approval criteria, and two people with the same credit score on Experian can (and will) get different results after an application.

Experian will have gotten a fee for providing your credit history to BA Amex, but I very much doubt that fee increases if BA Amex decline your application with them.

Was the card you got via Experian the BA Amex card? If not, I can't see what the issue is.

I can't see where there is a conflict of interest.

Nasqueron

Experian get a fee for referring you and you getting accepted - they won't waste time sending over customers they don't think would qualify as BA would no doubt stop giving them fees if they kept sending more and more over and wasting time and resources with everyone getting rejected.

BA rejected you as you didn't suit their target market, either appeal for a manual review or forget it and move on. They rejected you based on the data on their CRA (Experian in this case)

The score you see is meaningless, no lender ever sees it, they look only at the data on your file and base their decision on that

CliveOfIndia

991GTS said:

The initial limit is £1200

No, the initial limit will be decided when they've processed your application.  The figure of £1200 is a standard "representative" figure used in all advertising to allow you to compare deals from different providers.

991GTS said:

I received an email from Amex confirming this and suggesting I contact Experian if I had questions. I could also call Amex so I did. They said it was Experians decision.

This is not correct.  Experian provide the raw data about your credit file to Amex, who then feed that into their own internal systems to decide whether or not they want to lend to you.  Experian provide the raw data, but play no part whatsoever in Amex's lending decision.

991GTS said:

Credit score still showed as good

That's irrelevant, since it's not used, or even seen, by any lender.

991GTS said:

Experian are also a Credit Broker

No they're not.  They may get a bit of commission from a credit provider if you take out credit via Experian, but they themselves are neither a credit provider nor broker.

991GTS said:

No doubt Experian got a fee for declining me.

Wrong again, I'm afraid.  Amex will have paid a fee for them to provide your data, as all lenders will, but Experian neither know nor care what the outcome of your application was.

MeteredOut

CliveOfIndia said:

991GTS said:

Experian are also a Credit Broker

No they're not.  They may get a bit of commission from a credit provider if you take out credit via Experian, but they themselves are neither a credit provider nor broker.

You need to tell Experian that

"With Experian, you can compare credit cards from across the UK market. But remember, we’re a credit broker, not a lender†. This means we can help you find deals, but only the lender can offer you credit."

and

"Just remember we’re a credit broker not a lender†."

with the footnote:

"† Experian acts as a credit broker and not a lender in the provision of its credit cards and personal, car finance and guarantor loans comparison services, meaning it will show you products offered by lenders and other brokers."

https://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/credit-cards/types/interest-free.html

991GTS

Nasqueron said:

Experian get a fee for referring you and you getting accepted - they won't waste time sending over customers they don't think would qualify as BA would no doubt stop giving them fees if they kept sending more and more over and wasting time and resources with everyone getting rejected.

BA rejected you as you didn't suit their target market, either appeal for a manual review or forget it and move on. They rejected you based on the data on their CRA (Experian in this case)

The score you see is meaningless, no lender ever sees it, they look only at the data on your file and base their decision on that

I never said Experian referred me to BA. As for BA's target market, they must be pretty inept then as I am a company director, in their executive club and fly multiple times a year, usually in club.

As for scores, I mention it as it is supposed to be based on your credit history. While I accept its not what a lender uses but equally if you 'score' is '2' instead of '999' that should indicate something!

991GTS

CliveOfIndia said:

991GTS said:

The initial limit is £1200

No, the initial limit will be decided when they've processed your application.  The figure of £1200 is a standard "representative" figure used in all advertising to allow you to compare deals from different providers.

991GTS said:

I received an email from Amex confirming this and suggesting I contact Experian if I had questions. I could also call Amex so I did. They said it was Experians decision.

This is not correct.  Experian provide the raw data about your credit file to Amex, who then feed that into their own internal systems to decide whether or not they want to lend to you.  Experian provide the raw data, but play no part whatsoever in Amex's lending decision.

991GTS said:

Credit score still showed as good

That's irrelevant, since it's not used, or even seen, by any lender.

991GTS said:

Experian are also a Credit Broker

No they're not.  They may get a bit of commission from a credit provider if you take out credit via Experian, but they themselves are neither a credit provider nor broker.

991GTS said:

No doubt Experian got a fee for declining me.

Wrong again, I'm afraid.  Amex will have paid a fee for them to provide your data, as all lenders will, but Experian neither know nor care what the outcome of your application was.

Well, to all of the above you like to tell me I am wrong but;

£1200 limit is what the card product is advertised as offering. Not up to. If Amex increase later that is then. From day 1 if successful that is the limit.

I can only go by what the Amex representative tells me.

Credit score. As stated elsewhere, its a guide. Of course I don't expect them to use it.

Credit Broker. You are wrong here as it is clearly stated by them that they are a broker. That is clear.

Fee. My point is they get a fee. They also offer the opportunity for you to 'see' your score etc and during this time present you with offers for cards etc you did not ask to see

MeteredOut

I'm still confused what you see the conflict of interest.

Experian have multiple income streams, two of which are

1) Selling your credit history to financial product providers. They did this, and BA Amex did not want your business based on their own criteria, despite you being a company director (which they will know just takes a few minutes and a few £s to become)

2) Referring you to financial institutions, and on acceptance, they are likely to receive a referral fee

These are probably two distinct business units within Experian.

Unless you are suggesting that somehow Experian directly caused your BA Amex application to be declined so that you'd then come back to them to be referred to another card (pretty far fetched, I'm sure you'll agree) then exactly where is the conflict of interest?

MorningcoffeeIV

991GTS said:

CliveOfIndia said:

991GTS said:

The initial limit is £1200

No, the initial limit will be decided when they've processed your application.  The figure of £1200 is a standard "representative" figure used in all advertising to allow you to compare deals from different providers.

991GTS said:

I received an email from Amex confirming this and suggesting I contact Experian if I had questions. I could also call Amex so I did. They said it was Experians decision.

This is not correct.  Experian provide the raw data about your credit file to Amex, who then feed that into their own internal systems to decide whether or not they want to lend to you.  Experian provide the raw data, but play no part whatsoever in Amex's lending decision.

991GTS said:

Credit score still showed as good

That's irrelevant, since it's not used, or even seen, by any lender.

991GTS said:

Experian are also a Credit Broker

No they're not.  They may get a bit of commission from a credit provider if you take out credit via Experian, but they themselves are neither a credit provider nor broker.

991GTS said:

No doubt Experian got a fee for declining me.

Wrong again, I'm afraid.  Amex will have paid a fee for them to provide your data, as all lenders will, but Experian neither know nor care what the outcome of your application was.

£1200 limit is what the card product is advertised as offering. Not up to. If Amex increase later that is then. From day 1 if successful that is the limit.

Again, not true. It's representative.  They have no choice in whether to display that or not.

You may get more or less for your limit. But virtually no Amex customer will get £1200, because it's not that sort of card.

_Penny_Dreadful

991GTS said:

Nasqueron said:

Experian get a fee for referring you and you getting accepted - they won't waste time sending over customers they don't think would qualify as BA would no doubt stop giving them fees if they kept sending more and more over and wasting time and resources with everyone getting rejected.

BA rejected you as you didn't suit their target market, either appeal for a manual review or forget it and move on. They rejected you based on the data on their CRA (Experian in this case)

The score you see is meaningless, no lender ever sees it, they look only at the data on your file and base their decision on that

I never said Experian referred me to BA. As for BA's target market, they must be pretty inept then as I am a company director, in their executive club and fly multiple times a year, usually in club.

As for scores, I mention it as it is supposed to be based on your credit history. While I accept it’s not what a lender uses but equally if you 'score' is '2' instead of '999' that should indicate something!

BA aren’t making the lending decision, they’re an airline not a lender. Amex has decided to decline you for some reason and what I can say is that you having flown Club World in the past had nothing to do with Amex’s lending decision. 

I’ve applied for Amex twice in my life and despite other lenders throwing cards at me Amex straight up declined me. I have no idea why. It will just have to remain one of life’s great mysteries. 

The credit score generate by Experian doesn’t necessarily tell you much. Someone with no credit history at all can have a score of 999. A scout of the forum provides anecdotal evidence that insolvent people can also be scored 999 by Experian. 

DullGreyGuy

In recent years AmEx's customer service teams, especially in account opening, seem to have become more inept. It seems they try to "help" by proposing a reason for the decision but if you speak to 3 agents you get 3 different reasons. My guess is they are not privy to the reason and are yet to learn the call script that refuses to explain the reason. 

Working in FS and switching companies regularly I'm frequently under going employment related credit checks and so always conscious of what might be going on my credit file. So when AmEx recently decided to drop my BA card from £20,000 to £6,100 I contacted them. First agent said my internal score was perfect and so he'd get someone else to call back as he couldn't work out why. No call was received so spoke to them again and this time was told it was negative information received from the CRAs, obviously that put me in a panic so checked, all normal. So third call and this time told its because my spending over the last 3 months had been higher than my average but acknowledged balance was paid off in full each time. 

Ultimately this formed part of a wider issue which has ultimately gone to the FOS (wasn't challenging the dropped limit) and AmEx has told the FOS that every payment over the last 10 years has been late despite never charging a late payment fee and never reporting a late payment to the CRAs. 


Anyway, everyone else is correct, Experian don't make the decision, they just provide the data for AmEx's algorithm to make the decision on. Each lender has its own criteria and what one lender likes another may not. AmEx, back when they were mainly chargecards, used to not like standing balances a lot more than other card issuers. 

Experian are therefore not declining you in the hope that you come back to them to get a card from someone else that pays a higher commission. 

Nasqueron said:

Experian get a fee for referring you and you getting accepted - they won't waste time sending over customers they don't think would qualify as BA would no doubt stop giving them fees if they kept sending more and more over and wasting time and resources with everyone getting rejected.

AmEx won't necessarily care about the acceptance rate, data ultimately has value even if its from people you decline to offer a product to. If the cost of a single application is £0.00001 then they'll take every one they can get. They only pay on success so the rest is free data. If each application costs £2 to process then absolutely they may adjust the success fees paid to those providing higher quality applicants. 

I've no idea what costs are involved in an application nor what percentage discuss/challenge a declined application -v- just accept it.