Sellers estate agent calling buyers solicitor

cymruchris

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?  

Because although you might think you know where you are - the solicitors may not have shared everything with you - and you could say anything - which may include stretching the truth (and I'm not saying you would - but some might) - so it's best to go to the horse's mouth as the old saying goes.

35har1old

NameUnavailable said:

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?  

As the buyer I don't have an 'agent'  and also have a vested interest that the seller is also 'getting on with things' as they have an onward purchase.   So, in a parallel context it should be ok for me contact the sellers solicitor for updates as well?

The EA is doing their job. They could ask you stuff but they probably prefer dealing with the solicitors rather than buyers who may or may not know what's going on, may or may not be familiar with the process of buying/selling, etc. etc., and the solicitor is unlikely to mislead them if there is some hitch.

You should be getting updates from your solicitors.

You do have a agent that's your solicitor who is supposed to follow your instructions.
We both wanted a quick sale but it took 18 weeks after offer was accepted 
My estate agent was in contact with all parties both solicitors buyer and myself if it where not for the estate agent I think I still would be waiting on completion.
She kept in touch with buyer giving him updates highlighting what was causing the delays some which was out of either solicitor control but there was some unnecessary hurdles placed by buyer solicitor which he was not aware of. 

kayen

thanks for all your replies.  In this case the EA had misunderstood and thought my solicitor had said I hadn't yet instructed (incorrect!)  and they were quite vague when I asked at what stage the sellers were at.  Seems like only info one way in the sellers favour....

So, if I want to get an update about the sellers (they have an onward purchase so will need similar things to me eg searches, survey etc) who do I ask?  Based on convo with the EA I'm unsure how accurate or forthcoming they'll be.   

doodling

Hi,

kayen said:

Hello,

I found out the sellers estate agent has been calling my solicitor asking for updates.
- is this accepted practice or are they overstepping? 

I have no idea whether it is common practice but if your solicitor said anything other than "we cannot discuss our client's business with you" then your solicitor has committed a serious breach of confidentiality.  Unless of course the "estate agent" is formally acting as the vendor's agent (i.e. with permission to fully conduct the transaction) in which case the solicitors response should be "please confirm whether we should deal with <vendor's solicitor>, <vendor> or <estate agent> in the matter of this sale" as they should only be dealing with one of those (and to be blunt you are only paying them to deal with one, not to answer questions from all and sundry).

That generally means that there is no point in the vendors or their agent talking to the buyer's solicitor as they should learn nothing, just as if I phoned up enquiring about progress.

Solicitors should (and generally do) take the confidentially of clients business extremely seriously.

doodling

Hi,

user1977 said:

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?

Because generally the solicitors know better than you what's going on? And might be more likely to talk to the agent.

As the buyer I don't have an 'agent'  and also have a vested interest that the seller is also 'getting on with things' as they have an onward purchase.   So, in a parallel context it should be ok for me contact the sellers solicitor for updates as well?

No, solicitors aren't allowed to talk to other solicitors' clients. You talk to your own solicitor if you want an update.

The solicitors shouldn't be talking to the estate agent either as they are equivalent to the other solicitor's client (them being an agent of that client for the purposes of marketing the house).

The only person on the vendor's side that the OP's solicitor should be talking to are the vendor's nominated representative for the purpose of the contract for sale of the house - that is normally their solicitor.

EssexHebridean

doodling said:

Hi,

kayen said:

Hello,

I found out the sellers estate agent has been calling my solicitor asking for updates.
- is this accepted practice or are they overstepping? 

I have no idea whether it is common practice but if your solicitor said anything other than "we cannot discuss our client's business with you" then your solicitor has committed a serious breach of confidentiality.  Unless of course the "estate agent" is formally acting as the vendor's agent (i.e. with permission to fully conduct the transaction) in which case the solicitors response should be "please confirm whether we should deal with <vendor's solicitor>, <vendor> or <estate agent> in the matter of this sale" as they should only be dealing with one of those (and to be blunt you are only paying them to deal with one, not to answer questions from all and sundry).

That generally means that there is no point in the vendors or their agent talking to the buyer's solicitor as they should learn nothing, just as if I phoned up enquiring about progress.

Solicitors should (and generally do) take the confidentially of clients business extremely seriously.

doodling said:

Hi,

user1977 said:

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?

Because generally the solicitors know better than you what's going on? And might be more likely to talk to the agent.

As the buyer I don't have an 'agent'  and also have a vested interest that the seller is also 'getting on with things' as they have an onward purchase.   So, in a parallel context it should be ok for me contact the sellers solicitor for updates as well?

No, solicitors aren't allowed to talk to other solicitors' clients. You talk to your own solicitor if you want an update.

The solicitors shouldn't be talking to the estate agent either as they are equivalent to the other solicitor's client (them being an agent of that client for the purposes of marketing the house).

The only person on the vendor's side that the OP's solicitor should be talking to are the vendor's nominated representative for the purpose of the contract for sale of the house - that is normally their solicitor.

There is a fair bit of misleading and incorrect information here. As already stated, it is usual for agents in the chain to make contact with solicitors to get updates. Happens literally daily, and so long as the information disclosed fits in with what the client is happy with, and doesn't breach the confidentiality rules (which are clear and understood by not only solicitors themselves, but by those working for them also) then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

OP - if you don't want your solicitor to talk to any agents, then instruct them accordingly. It will undoubtedly slow the transaction down though as a good agent is worth their weight in gold for getting things moving along, finding out information and generally earning at least a fraction of their extortionate commission! 

Tiglet2

Reminds of the time when I was selling my previous property!

My solicitor happened to mention that they were getting fed up with one of the estate agents in our chain constantly phoning them for updates.  I asked which agent it was and it was the agent selling my buyer's property. 

I did a little digging and was shocked to find out that the agent and my buyer were one and the same person.  I and my solicitor agreed that we would no longer liaise with that estate agent or any of the employees there.   

If an agent is selling their own property, they would disclose that, but he didn't feel the need to disclose that he was buying one of the properties in the chain.  He was using his "Agent" hat on to chase solicitors up and down the chain and not disclosing that he had a vested interest.

However, back to the OP.  Yes, part of an EA's role is to chase the various solicitors involved in the transaction.  But solicitors will usually give a basic update such as we are waiting on something or we have raised enquiries and await responses.  There won't be any personal information disclosed.

EssexHebridean

Tiglet2 said:

Reminds of the time when I was selling my previous property!

My solicitor happened to mention that they were getting fed up with one of the estate agents in our chain constantly phoning them for updates.  I asked which agent it was and it was the agent selling my buyer's property. 

I did a little digging and was shocked to find out that the agent and my buyer were one and the same person.  I and my solicitor agreed that we would no longer liaise with that estate agent or any of the employees there.   

If an agent is selling their own property, they would disclose that, but he didn't feel the need to disclose that he was buying one of the properties in the chain.  He was using his "Agent" hat on to chase solicitors up and down the chain and not disclosing that he had a vested interest.

However, back to the OP.  Yes, part of an EA's role is to chase the various solicitors involved in the transaction.  But solicitors will usually give a basic update such as we are waiting on something or we have raised enquiries and await responses.  There won't be any personal information disclosed.

Yes - downright unethical, that, IMO! 

doodling

Hi,

EssexHebridean said:

doodling said:

Hi,

kayen said:

Hello,

I found out the sellers estate agent has been calling my solicitor asking for updates.
- is this accepted practice or are they overstepping? 

I have no idea whether it is common practice but if your solicitor said anything other than "we cannot discuss our client's business with you" then your solicitor has committed a serious breach of confidentiality.  Unless of course the "estate agent" is formally acting as the vendor's agent (i.e. with permission to fully conduct the transaction) in which case the solicitors response should be "please confirm whether we should deal with <vendor's solicitor>, <vendor> or <estate agent> in the matter of this sale" as they should only be dealing with one of those (and to be blunt you are only paying them to deal with one, not to answer questions from all and sundry).

That generally means that there is no point in the vendors or their agent talking to the buyer's solicitor as they should learn nothing, just as if I phoned up enquiring about progress.

Solicitors should (and generally do) take the confidentially of clients business extremely seriously.

doodling said:

Hi,

user1977 said:

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?

Because generally the solicitors know better than you what's going on? And might be more likely to talk to the agent.

As the buyer I don't have an 'agent'  and also have a vested interest that the seller is also 'getting on with things' as they have an onward purchase.   So, in a parallel context it should be ok for me contact the sellers solicitor for updates as well?

No, solicitors aren't allowed to talk to other solicitors' clients. You talk to your own solicitor if you want an update.

The solicitors shouldn't be talking to the estate agent either as they are equivalent to the other solicitor's client (them being an agent of that client for the purposes of marketing the house).

The only person on the vendor's side that the OP's solicitor should be talking to are the vendor's nominated representative for the purpose of the contract for sale of the house - that is normally their solicitor.

There is a fair bit of misleading and incorrect information here. As already stated, it is usual for agents in the chain to make contact with solicitors to get updates. Happens literally daily, and so long as the information disclosed fits in with what the client is happy with, and doesn't breach the confidentiality rules (which are clear and understood by not only solicitors themselves, but by those working for them also) then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

OP - if you don't want your solicitor to talk to any agents, then instruct them accordingly. It will undoubtedly slow the transaction down though as a good agent is worth their weight in gold for getting things moving along, finding out information and generally earning at least a fraction of their extortionate commission! 

I've given this some.thought and agree that there is no impediment to the solicitor talking to the agent about the progress that their vendor (not the solicitor's client) is making with the sale.  The restriction in a buyer's solicitor talking directly to a represented vendor is more about the perceived imbalance in power which I would accept probably doesn't apply to a conversation with their agent.

That is however on the condition that the solicitor knows that the agent represents the vendor and can confirm the identity of  the agent from a phone call. That might be possible in the case of a pre existing relationship between them but might not generally be the case in larger towns and cities where there are many more agents / solicitors without some more complex process which would make an informal.l phone call difficult. This is because the solicitor will be under an obligation (to buyer and vendor) to keep details of the transaction private.  Obviously calling the agent back would provide much of that identity verification, assuming a validated phone number was used - do solicitors really spend time calling agents back?  It will be the solicitor's duty to make sure that they aren't talking to the vendor's ex partner, for example, so verification of the identity of the person purporting to be the agent is important.

The solicitor should not reveal the state of any work they are doing for their client without agreeing that in advance with their client - that would be a clear breach of confidentiality - the only thing they can state without the explicit agreement of their client is whether they are / are not yet ready to proceed, they should not say why (edited to add: unless of course the cause is the vendor).  The reason for this is that the solicitor cannot know whether more detailed information might prejudice their client.  It is not the solicitors place to, for example, let slip to the vendor that the buyer is buying with a mortgage, or is on holiday, or is waiting for someone else, especially if their client might have said something else to the vendor.

In practice I think those requirements will make the conversations you describe impossible, or a lot more limited than you suggest.

If you are telling me that such conversations are normal then I would suggest that some solicitors are taking a degree of risk with their professional reputation (or a punt that in most cases their client just won't care).

GoogleMeNow

doodling said:

Hi,

EssexHebridean said:

doodling said:

Hi,

kayen said:

Hello,

I found out the sellers estate agent has been calling my solicitor asking for updates.
- is this accepted practice or are they overstepping? 

I have no idea whether it is common practice but if your solicitor said anything other than "we cannot discuss our client's business with you" then your solicitor has committed a serious breach of confidentiality.  Unless of course the "estate agent" is formally acting as the vendor's agent (i.e. with permission to fully conduct the transaction) in which case the solicitors response should be "please confirm whether we should deal with <vendor's solicitor>, <vendor> or <estate agent> in the matter of this sale" as they should only be dealing with one of those (and to be blunt you are only paying them to deal with one, not to answer questions from all and sundry).

That generally means that there is no point in the vendors or their agent talking to the buyer's solicitor as they should learn nothing, just as if I phoned up enquiring about progress.

Solicitors should (and generally do) take the confidentially of clients business extremely seriously.

doodling said:

Hi,

user1977 said:

kayen said:

I understand the EA wants to know things are progressing to ensure their sale goes through but why don't they just ask me?

Because generally the solicitors know better than you what's going on? And might be more likely to talk to the agent.

As the buyer I don't have an 'agent'  and also have a vested interest that the seller is also 'getting on with things' as they have an onward purchase.   So, in a parallel context it should be ok for me contact the sellers solicitor for updates as well?

No, solicitors aren't allowed to talk to other solicitors' clients. You talk to your own solicitor if you want an update.

The solicitors shouldn't be talking to the estate agent either as they are equivalent to the other solicitor's client (them being an agent of that client for the purposes of marketing the house).

The only person on the vendor's side that the OP's solicitor should be talking to are the vendor's nominated representative for the purpose of the contract for sale of the house - that is normally their solicitor.

There is a fair bit of misleading and incorrect information here. As already stated, it is usual for agents in the chain to make contact with solicitors to get updates. Happens literally daily, and so long as the information disclosed fits in with what the client is happy with, and doesn't breach the confidentiality rules (which are clear and understood by not only solicitors themselves, but by those working for them also) then there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 

OP - if you don't want your solicitor to talk to any agents, then instruct them accordingly. It will undoubtedly slow the transaction down though as a good agent is worth their weight in gold for getting things moving along, finding out information and generally earning at least a fraction of their extortionate commission! 

 I've given this some.thought and agree that there is no impediment to the solicitor talking to the agent about the progress that their vendor (not the solicitor's client) is making with the sale.  The solicitor acting for a buyer can only confirm progress for the buyer.  They cannot speak on behalf of a vendor as they do not represent them.  The EA would have to speak to the vendor's solicitor to find out any progress on the vendor's side.  The restriction in a buyer's solicitor talking directly to a represented vendor is more about the perceived imbalance in power which I would accept probably doesn't apply to a conversation with their agent.  As said before, a buyer's solicitor can not speak to a vendor.  The vendor is not their client.

That is however on the condition that the solicitor knows that the agent represents the vendor and can confirm the identity of  the agent from a phone call. That might be possible in the case of a pre existing relationship between them but might not generally be the case in larger towns and cities where there are many more agents / solicitors without some more complex process which would make an informal.l phone call difficult. This is because the solicitor will be under an obligation (to buyer and vendor) to keep details of the transaction private.  Obviously calling the agent back would provide much of that identity verification, assuming a validated phone number was used - do solicitors really spend time calling agents back? No, a solicitor doesn't usually spend time talking to an agent.  The solicitor wants to get on with the work, not spend time updating an estate agent.  But 'sales progressor' agents continually call solicitors trying to ascertain what progress is being made in a transaction, usually because the vendor or buyer have asked them for an update.   It will be the solicitor's duty to make sure that they aren't talking to the vendor's ex partner, for example, so verification of the identity of the person purporting to be the agent is important.  Yes, solicitors need to be diligent with who they are speaking to.  Generally when a call comes through there will be a caller display which would show them that the number calling is one of the numbers recorded on the file.  

The solicitor should not reveal the state of any work they are doing for their client without agreeing that in advance with their client - that would be a clear breach of confidentiality - the only thing they can state without the explicit agreement of their client is whether they are / are not yet ready to proceed, they should not say why (edited to add: unless of course the cause is the vendor).  The reason for this is that the solicitor cannot know whether more detailed information might prejudice their client.  It is not the solicitors place to, for example, let slip to the vendor that the buyer is buying with a mortgage, or is on holiday, or is waiting for someone else, especially if their client might have said something else to the vendor. The solicitor will only speak for their client and it will be basic information such as waiting for this or waiting for that.  They won't be having a conversation about holidays.  The solicitor will not speak to the vendor if the vendor is not their client so I'm not sure why you think a solicitor acting for a buyer would even be having a conversation with a vendor. 

In practice I think those requirements will make the conversations you describe impossible, or a lot more limited than you suggest.

If you are telling me that such conversations are normal then I would suggest that some solicitors are taking a degree of risk with their professional reputation (or a punt that in most cases their client just won't care).

See my comments above