Non-married breakup, kids involved - advice please

inquisitivewanderer

Long story short, my Brother and his ex-partner (not married), have two children together and have been living together for close to 15 years in a house they have bought together.
They split up around 4 months ago after a long drawn-out process of his ex cheating on him with both men and women (again, this is the short version of the story).
They are both named on the deeds to the property, but my Brother has been paying the mortgage ever since his eldest child was born 8 years ago, as well as all bills. She has not paid anything into any of it despite working 3 days a week for 10 years up until 6 weeks ago.
She is currently unemployed, and claims she is trying to get a new job, but refuses to work more than 3 days a week, and will only work school hours, for 'the sake of her mental health'.

He wants to sell the house so they can have a clean break, they previously agreed to split the house 50/50 on sale, as well as split the kids' time 50/50 between them, and he wants to rent a house somewhere afresh where the kids don't have the confusion of living with two parents who constantly argue.
She is now digging her heels in and refusing to sell the house, despite the kids suffering as a result of the constant animosity between them. He hates this and is at the point where he is willing to stop paying the bills and have the house taken off them and end up with nothing out of the equity, just to get away from her and ensure the kids get used to the situation.

My questions are:
1) What are his options as a non-married couple with 2 kids, with an ex-partner that refuses to move or sell the house?
2) If he refuses to pay the bills and decides to rent somewhere else, would there be any legal recourse in terms of him being forced to pay the mortgage?

TIA for any replies.

Brie

If both names are on the deeds and therefore both on the mortgage then they are both liable for the money owed.  If he stops paying then both their credit histories will reflect this.  

He can tell all the utilities etc that he is moving out and that she is solely responsible but I don't know how willing they will be to simply take his word for it if she doesn't engage with them.  Potentially it will only be her credit history effected by this if her name only is on the bills.

He needs to talk to a solicitor in my opinion or at least a mediator.  She has a lot of power in this situation as she's in the house with children and obviously not co-operating.  He may need to throw more money at the situation.  Agree that it's a 50/50 split on the equity of the house and fund a deposit for her to rent someplace.    

inquisitivewanderer

Brie said:

If both names are on the deeds and therefore both on the mortgage then they are both liable for the money owed.  If he stops paying then both their credit histories will reflect this.  

He can tell all the utilities etc that he is moving out and that she is solely responsible but I don't know how willing they will be to simply take his word for it if she doesn't engage with them.  Potentially it will only be her credit history effected by this if her name only is on the bills.

He needs to talk to a solicitor in my opinion or at least a mediator.  She has a lot of power in this situation as she's in the house with children and obviously not co-operating.  He may need to throw more money at the situation.  Agree that it's a 50/50 split on the equity of the house and fund a deposit for her to rent someplace.    

Thanks for the response.
Well aware of the credit history issue if he stops paying, but it's got to the point where he feels he has no choice.

I'm unsure where he stands though in that situation legally from a financial standpoint. For example, he'd have to pay childcare regardless, but would that be bumped up even more if he moved out and decided to stop paying the mortgage?

VyEu

1) he's entitled to 50% of the net equity in the property (assuming no deed of trust or similar). if he wants to force a sale, it's Part 8 TOLATA claim. Go and see a solicitor to draft a pre-action protocol letter.
2) No. if he ceases to pay and it falls into arrears and it would affect his credit score. Also, if ex pays the whole amount of the mortgage she can argue she should therefore get more than 50% of the net equity because of these contributions. 

inquisitivewanderer

VyEu said:

1) he's entitled to 50% of the net equity in the property (assuming no deed of trust or similar). if he wants to force a sale, it's Part 8 TOLATA claim. Go and see a solicitor to draft a pre-action protocol letter.
2) No. if he ceases to pay and it falls into arrears and it would affect his credit score. Also, if ex pays the whole amount of the mortgage she can argue she should therefore get more than 50% of the net equity because of these contributions. 

Thanks for the response.
On point 2, what about on the flip side to that - he's been paying the mortgage for the last 8 years, as well as all bills. She's literally contributed nothing. Could he therefore stand a good chance of getting more than 50% of the net equity in the event she did eventually decide to agree to sale?
I'm pretty sure he already spoke to a solicitor about this, and they said it is very hard to do this so interested to get your thoughts.

_Penny_Dreadful

inquisitivewanderer said:

Long story short, my Brother and his ex-partner (not married), have two children together and have been living together for close to 15 years in a house they have bought together.
They split up around 4 months ago after a long drawn-out process of his ex cheating on him with both men and women (again, this is the short version of the story).
They are both named on the deeds to the property, but my Brother has been paying the mortgage ever since his eldest child was born 8 years ago, as well as all bills. She has not paid anything into any of it despite working 3 days a week for 10 years up until 6 weeks ago.
She is currently unemployed, and claims she is trying to get a new job, but refuses to work more than 3 days a week, and will only work school hours, for 'the sake of her mental health'.

He wants to sell the house so they can have a clean break, they previously agreed to split the house 50/50 on sale, as well as split the kids' time 50/50 between them, and he wants to rent a house somewhere afresh where the kids don't have the confusion of living with two parents who constantly argue.
She is now digging her heels in and refusing to sell the house, despite the kids suffering as a result of the constant animosity between them. He hates this and is at the point where he is willing to stop paying the bills and have the house taken off them and end up with nothing out of the equity, just to get away from her and ensure the kids get used to the situation.

My questions are:
1) What are his options as a non-married couple with 2 kids, with an ex-partner that refuses to move or sell the house?
2) If he refuses to pay the bills and decides to rent somewhere else, would there be any legal recourse in terms of him being forced to pay the mortgage?

TIA for any replies.

2) As it’s a joint mortgage they each have joint and several liability for paying it. The mortgage lender doesn’t care which one does it. The council tax and utilities, those depend on who is occupying the property. 

1) Joint owners can force the sale of the property through the courts. Unless there is a deed of trust stating otherwise then the split will be 50/50. When one party refuses to cooperate resulting in the sale being forced through the courts, the court can award costs against them to be deducted from their share of the property. It can take years to resolve legally. 

Could your brother afford to buy her out? 

Who has been the primary care giver to the children? Has the domestic load been split 50/50 or as the ex has been working part time has she contributed more than your brother domestically. If it has been a straight 50/50 split or your brother has taken up more the domestic load then would him remaining in the property with the children be an option? 

Exodi

I think he needs to focus all his energy on negotiating with her as the other two options are pretty nuclear.

Presumably she has a side to the story, whereby she may have justified the cheating to herself. She may even view him as being unreasonable. I know it often puts a lot of peoples backs up when one side bangs on about how the other side hasn't worked or earned as much, while ignoring the sacrifices made to raise the kids. You don't mention how old the second child is?

For the record, I don't justify cheating at all. I was cheated on with a house involved... absolutely sucks and a totally morally bankrupt thing to do. But I am aware that it is natural for people to do mental gymnastics to justify horrendous things like that to themselves, I expect she has convinced herself that she is the victim in this situation. Even if it's not genuine, I wouldn't discourage a conversation where your brother tries to empathise like "I understand why you say you cheated on me, but you must appreciate that we can't live together forever, and it's not reasonable for me to move out and carry on paying for you to live here. We both need to move on."

In reality, it's obvious why she's happy living there, where your brother is paying the mortgage and she's gaining equity for free. It's obviously daunting to be asked to move out without a job so he probably needs to be realistic in his timeline also.

inquisitivewanderer

_Penny_Dreadful said:

inquisitivewanderer said:

Long story short, my Brother and his ex-partner (not married), have two children together and have been living together for close to 15 years in a house they have bought together.
They split up around 4 months ago after a long drawn-out process of his ex cheating on him with both men and women (again, this is the short version of the story).
They are both named on the deeds to the property, but my Brother has been paying the mortgage ever since his eldest child was born 8 years ago, as well as all bills. She has not paid anything into any of it despite working 3 days a week for 10 years up until 6 weeks ago.
She is currently unemployed, and claims she is trying to get a new job, but refuses to work more than 3 days a week, and will only work school hours, for 'the sake of her mental health'.

He wants to sell the house so they can have a clean break, they previously agreed to split the house 50/50 on sale, as well as split the kids' time 50/50 between them, and he wants to rent a house somewhere afresh where the kids don't have the confusion of living with two parents who constantly argue.
She is now digging her heels in and refusing to sell the house, despite the kids suffering as a result of the constant animosity between them. He hates this and is at the point where he is willing to stop paying the bills and have the house taken off them and end up with nothing out of the equity, just to get away from her and ensure the kids get used to the situation.

My questions are:
1) What are his options as a non-married couple with 2 kids, with an ex-partner that refuses to move or sell the house?
2) If he refuses to pay the bills and decides to rent somewhere else, would there be any legal recourse in terms of him being forced to pay the mortgage?

TIA for any replies.

2) As it’s a joint mortgage they each have joint and several liability for paying it. The mortgage lender doesn’t care which one does it. The council tax and utilities, those depend on who is occupying the property. 

1) Joint owners can force the sale of the property through the courts. Unless there is a deed of trust stating otherwise then the split will be 50/50. When one party refuses to cooperate resulting in the sale being forced through the courts, the court can award costs against them to be deducted from their share of the property. It can take years to resolve legally. 

Could your brother afford to buy her out? 

Who has been the primary care giver to the children? Has the domestic load been split 50/50 or as the ex has been working part time has she contributed more than your brother domestically. If it has been a straight 50/50 split or your brother has taken up more the domestic load then would him remaining in the property with the children be an option? 

For the last 18 months, the answer would be he has been the primary caregiver. Over Christmas, they finally agreed to separate but remain amicable for the kids sake. They agreed they would have the kids 50/50 going forward.
But then she has become sour because she's realised she will lose her free ride (as I said, he pays all bills, including the mortgage, council tax, utilities, kids extra curricular activities and has done for the last 8 years).

Hence, at the thought of having to pay her own way, contribute to the costs of having children, and find a job to do that, she now tells him she doesn't want him in the house, and he's been forced to stay elsewhere meaning she has become the primary caregiver despite maybe being there 20% of the time for the last 18 months. The only reason she's even in a position to do this is because a lot of her friends have distanced themselves from her so she has less of her activities to do, and she's not working, hence can be there for the kids.
She has been telling him she can't sell the house because she has no job, and needs time to get one. He initially agreed to this, but now the excuse is she isn't in the right 'mental state' to apply for jobs, hence it's just putting obstacles in the way to prevent the sale of the house. It makes me sick to my stomach.

If she's now the primary caregiver but hasn't been for the last 18 months, what impact does this have on option 1? I fear she's using the fact she's now living in the house pretty much just her and the kids (whilst he foots the bills) as a means to guard herself against a forced sale. But I'm not sure about the legalities of this.

Stateofart

Because they are not married, he can force a sale through the courts.  Preferably, she could buy him out.  In these circumstances, someone either takes over the house and buys them out OR sell and both get a house.  Doing nothing is not an option when not married.  In essence, this is a business decision.  One party can't keep another financially hostage in a business arrangement.  Also, tell him to move back in, that typically focuses the mind on a resolution.

_Penny_Dreadful

inquisitivewanderer said:

_Penny_Dreadful said:

inquisitivewanderer said:

Long story short, my Brother and his ex-partner (not married), have two children together and have been living together for close to 15 years in a house they have bought together.
They split up around 4 months ago after a long drawn-out process of his ex cheating on him with both men and women (again, this is the short version of the story).
They are both named on the deeds to the property, but my Brother has been paying the mortgage ever since his eldest child was born 8 years ago, as well as all bills. She has not paid anything into any of it despite working 3 days a week for 10 years up until 6 weeks ago.
She is currently unemployed, and claims she is trying to get a new job, but refuses to work more than 3 days a week, and will only work school hours, for 'the sake of her mental health'.

He wants to sell the house so they can have a clean break, they previously agreed to split the house 50/50 on sale, as well as split the kids' time 50/50 between them, and he wants to rent a house somewhere afresh where the kids don't have the confusion of living with two parents who constantly argue.
She is now digging her heels in and refusing to sell the house, despite the kids suffering as a result of the constant animosity between them. He hates this and is at the point where he is willing to stop paying the bills and have the house taken off them and end up with nothing out of the equity, just to get away from her and ensure the kids get used to the situation.

My questions are:
1) What are his options as a non-married couple with 2 kids, with an ex-partner that refuses to move or sell the house?
2) If he refuses to pay the bills and decides to rent somewhere else, would there be any legal recourse in terms of him being forced to pay the mortgage?

TIA for any replies.

2) As it’s a joint mortgage they each have joint and several liability for paying it. The mortgage lender doesn’t care which one does it. The council tax and utilities, those depend on who is occupying the property. 

1) Joint owners can force the sale of the property through the courts. Unless there is a deed of trust stating otherwise then the split will be 50/50. When one party refuses to cooperate resulting in the sale being forced through the courts, the court can award costs against them to be deducted from their share of the property. It can take years to resolve legally. 

Could your brother afford to buy her out? 

Who has been the primary care giver to the children? Has the domestic load been split 50/50 or as the ex has been working part time has she contributed more than your brother domestically. If it has been a straight 50/50 split or your brother has taken up more the domestic load then would him remaining in the property with the children be an option? 

If she's now the primary caregiver but hasn't been for the last 18 months, what impact does this have on option 1? I fear she's using the fact she's now living in the house pretty much just her and the kids (whilst he foots the bills) as a means to guard herself against a forced sale. But I'm not sure about the legalities of this.

Her living in the property alone with the children doesn’t make her immune from the sale of house being forced through the courts. Your brother could and probably should consider moving back in to the jointly owned home though. 

Going to court to force a sale or to get a child arrangements order can be time consuming and costly. He will be expected to try mediation before heading to court to see if something can be worked out between him and his ex. 

theoretica

Sometimes it can be helpful to show that what someone wants won't work. Could she afford the mortgage, even with child maintenance payments?  Has she even done the calculation?