Car lease company paid private parking company's parking charge & sent me the invoice to pay them.

Fruitcake

Olinda99 said:

the agreement is anything but vague - they say that they will pay any parking charges you incur and pass them onto you with a small admin fee

It does not refer to "any parking charges." It mentions specific charges and offences, none of which can be issued by unregulated private parking companies.

Olinda99 said:

yes I believe penalties for parking on private land are permitted and legal it has been tested in court. 

you can always appeal of course - that is your right - you appeal to the parking company to cancel your ticket giving your other reasons

Issuing penalties on private land is not legal, nor permitted, and this has been tested in court in the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land.

The OP cannot appeal because the lease company has denied them that right. They have also been denied the right to alternative dispute resolution because,
1 There is no independent appeals process,
2 The lease company has denied them that right.

Okell

Isn't that just an unfair contract term?

I don't see how the hire/lease company can just pay the "speculative invoice" and then re-charge the OP (plus an admin fee) without knowing whether the OP has actually committed the alleged infringement or whether they have a good defence.

How can the hire/lease company act as judge and jury?

sjs2013

The car park where I parked is a regular parking place for me. At that time parked a new car - so I was extra cautious to input the correct reg in the payment machine & show the ticket on the dash. 

In the parking charge notice sent to the lease company showed 2 photos - one is car entering the car park & another the car was leaving. But no photo of the dash showing/not showing any ticket.

OTOH I have receipt showing the payment made few minutes after entry. 

Their online appealing process says the case is closed. Their phone line is for making payments only. 

However at this stage, the matter is not between me and the parking company anymore. It's between me & the lease company. Hence I felt it's not a topic for the parking forum & didn't post there.

Few things I'll appreciate your thoughts about:

1. As the direct debit hasn't gone out yet, can I stop the payment in anyway?

2. If I can't stop the payment, can the bank reverse part of the payment as direct debit guarantee?

3. Do I make a complain to BVRLA & FCA at this stage or wait until the money is taken?

TIA

Fruitcake

1 and 2. You will need to contact your bank/card provider, but I strongly advise you to pre-empt everything by  instructing them not to allow the £90 charge and/or put it into dispute.

3. Complain to the lease company and the BVRLA. Instruct the former not to take the payment and warn them as I suggested previously that you will issue a claim against them in the county court if they do.
I don't think the FCA's remit will cover a vehicle lease company, but it will cover your bank/card provider. I think you can complain to them if the payment is taken against your instructions, but not before.

I still advise you to post on the parking forum as this is a frequent problem shared by many motorists. It came about by the actions of an unregulated private parking company, one of many referred to as rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers by UK MPs across all parties. The lease company making/intending to make the payment is the effect of the parking company's actions, not the cause.

Okell

Further to my previous post regarding the term being unfair, could it be argued that it falls under paragraph 20 of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I presume the OP would eventually have had the opportunity to challenge this "invoice" in court if he didn't pay up.  By paying up hasn't his lease company deprived him of his legal right to fight it in court?  Therefore it's an ufair term and unenforceable?

(Having said that I hold my hands up as no parking expert, but it looks like an unfair term in the lease to me...)

Fruitcake

Okell said:

Further to my previous post regarding the term being unfair, could it be argued that it falls under paragraph 20 of Schedule 2 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) ?

I presume the OP would eventually have had the opportunity to challenge this "invoice" in court if he didn't pay up.  By paying up hasn't his lease company deprived him of his legal right to fight it in court?  Therefore it's an ufair term and unenforceable?

(Having said that I hold my hands up as no parking expert, but it looks like an unfair term in the lease to me...)

Spot on. There are several paragraphs in that section of the CRA that I believe apply.

As for the contract with the lease company, Section 69 of the CRA 2015 applies.

69 Contract terms that may have different meanings

(1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.

The lease contract does not mention parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies. The meaning that is most favourable to the consumer (the vehicle lessee) is that the contract does not include parking charge notices from unregulated parking companies, only the terms that are specifically mentioned in the contract apply, and no other.

onomatopoeia99

Fruitcake said:

Olinda99 said:

the agreement is anything but vague - they say that they will pay any parking charges you incur and pass them onto you with a small admin fee

It does not refer to "any parking charges." It mentions specific charges and offences, none of which can be issued by unregulated private parking companies.

Olinda99 said:

yes I believe penalties for parking on private land are permitted and legal it has been tested in court. 

you can always appeal of course - that is your right - you appeal to the parking company to cancel your ticket giving your other reasons

Issuing penalties on private land is not legal, nor permitted, and this has been tested in court in the Supreme Court, the highest court in the land.

There is newer precedent on penalty in contract than Beavis and Cavendish square holdings?  Those are quite new and it is an area of law into which the courts rarely venture, just look at how long Dunlop stood as the precedent.

born_again

sjs2013 said:

The car park where I parked is a regular parking place for me. At that time parked a new car - so I was extra cautious to input the correct reg in the payment machine & show the ticket on the dash. 

In the parking charge notice sent to the lease company showed 2 photos - one is car entering the car park & another the car was leaving. But no photo of the dash showing/not showing any ticket.

OTOH I have receipt showing the payment made few minutes after entry. 

Their online appealing process says the case is closed. Their phone line is for making payments only. 

However at this stage, the matter is not between me and the parking company anymore. It's between me & the lease company. Hence I felt it's not a topic for the parking forum & didn't post there.

Few things I'll appreciate your thoughts about:

1. As the direct debit hasn't gone out yet, can I stop the payment in anyway?

2. If I can't stop the payment, can the bank reverse part of the payment as direct debit guarantee?

3. Do I make a complain to BVRLA & FCA at this stage or wait until the money is taken?

TIA

1, You can but it is not advised as you will then acquire a missed payment marker. As well as maybe a charge for that action. T/C will mention any.

2, No. There is not way of doing that.

Belenus

Reading this thread has made me consider this:

If car leasing companies are allowed to pay speculative parking invoices and claim the amount plus an admin fee from the lessee, with no redress possible for the lessee, that opens up a potential scam.

A parking company could just find details of leased cars, invent numerous parking offences for those cars, send the invoice off to the leasing company and pocket large sums of money.

We all know that these parking companies are mostly less than honest or reputable.

I haven't really thought this through so perhaps there is a flaw in the scam.

Fruitcake

Belenus said:

Reading this thread has made me consider this:

If car leasing companies are allowed to pay speculative parking invoices and claim the amount plus an admin fee from the lessee, with no redress possible for the lessee, that opens up a potential scam.

A parking company could just find details of leased cars, invent numerous parking offences for those cars, send the invoice off to the leasing company and pocket large sums of money.

We all know that these parking companies are mostly less than honest or reputable.

I haven't really thought this through so perhaps there is a flaw in the scam.

It's already happening, or a scam very similar. Scammers have got hold of details of people who have applied for jobs, in some cases applications as delivery drivers, then sent fake court bailiff letters to the vehicle owners with details of fake parking infringements from months ago, demanding hundreds of pounds.
In each case, names of genuine companies that are neither involved nor have any knowledge of the scam are being used to make it look legitimate, but with payment details of the scammers temporary accounts.