Disabled parents in their 80's have huge loan

Doucam67

As the title says.

My parents Dad 86 mum 82. Dad has dementia, mum has been bed bound for just over three years.

I have this weekend found out that that in November 2022 they took out a loan of £18,000, to cover credit cards that my dad had incurred.

They are now in a situation where there care and rental payment are more than their income.

They have not paid some care bills for a while and are now in around 30k debt, they are in danger of losing the place they live and the care they get. 

I am going to speak to SS about sorting care for them, they will undoubtedly have to go to separate care homes due to the care and financial differences, my dad can afford to pay, my mum cant't.

My question is this: Should the bank have lent them this money at such advanced years without checking their status, ie health? 

We are I think going to have to look at the bankruptcy route sadly, but I do feel that rather than a loan for the cards the bank maybe should have talked to my mum who was and still is of sound mind and come up with a better solution than a loan of £18k costing £415 pm over 5 years, to end when my my dad would have been 90 and my mum 86? given that there is absolutely not  a cat in hells chance that they will reach that with their health problems, which were known then? 

Any advice/thoughts would be welcome, but please be kind  

kimwp

Sorry to hear of Thier situation. It's probably better for this question to be on the debt free wannabe board.

MorningcoffeeIV

Doucam67 said:

My question is this: Should the bank have lent them this money at such advanced years without checking their status, ie health? 

They'll only have known about your parents' health if they volunteered is as a risk factor.I suspect they didn't declare anything of that nature.

Their priority now should be focusing on their care, rather than regretting any borrowing they took out, where the creditor has limited options at this stage, to be frank.

fatbelly

Can I just point out that there is absolutely nothing in your post that would point to bankruptcy being a sensible option at this point.

This is an unsecured nonpriority loan. They must pay for their rent and care and if they are in arrears with those, then the loan gets token payments or no payment until they catch up.

Of course they can start a complaint. Guidance here

https://debtcamel.co.uk/refunds-large-high-cost-loans/

And the bank will fail to understand how a consolidation loan helps no-one

But it's more important at this stage that they claim the benefits they can and get the legal aspects re wills and lpas sorted

silvercar

"I am going to speak to SS about sorting care for them, they will undoubtedly have to go to separate care homes due to the care and financial differences, my dad can afford to pay, my mum cant't."

I don't really understand this comment. Presuming a marriage that has lasted decades, how come their money is not pooled?
You should also looking at whether the state should be providing at least some of the care costs.

Keep_pedalling

silvercar said:

"I am going to speak to SS about sorting care for them, they will undoubtedly have to go to separate care homes due to the care and financial differences, my dad can afford to pay, my mum cant't."

I don't really understand this comment. Presuming a marriage that has lasted decades, how come their money is not pooled?
You should also looking at whether the state should be providing at least some of the care costs.

Are they currently paying for care through a private arrangement without SS involvement?

SS will need to do a financial assessment to see how much funding the LA will provide and how much they need to contribute. Do not expect that residential care will be easy to obtain, the LA will fund up to 4 daily carer visits before they go down that route.

Do they both get attendance allowance at the moment.

sourcrates

Doucam67 said:

We are I think going to have to look at the bankruptcy route sadly, but I do feel that rather than a loan for the cards the bank maybe should have talked to my mum who was and still is of sound mind and come up with a better solution than a loan of £18k costing £415 pm over 5 years, to end when my my dad would have been 90 and my mum 86? given that there is absolutely not  a cat in hells chance that they will reach that with their health problems, which were known then? 

Any advice/thoughts would be welcome, but please be kind  

Bankruptcy? absolutely not, loans/credit cards are non priority debts, if they can`t afford it, then stop paying.

Concentrate on the priority debts already mentioned, loans and credit cards are not priority debts unless the loan was secured on the property.

You can also ask the lender to look at writing the debt off due to the ill health and age of your parents.

Push comes to shove it would end up being a debt their estate has to deal with later on.

Doucam67

silvercar said:

"I am going to speak to SS about sorting care for them, they will undoubtedly have to go to separate care homes due to the care and financial differences, my dad can afford to pay, my mum cant't."

I don't really understand this comment. Presuming a marriage that has lasted decades, how come their money is not pooled?
You should also looking at whether the state should be providing at least some of the care costs.

Sorry I should have been clearer.

My dads pension payments are much greater than my mums, as they have differing care needs they won't be able to go into the same home (so I have been advised) so she won't have the same amount to use.

They do get attendance allowance of £407 a month. But that is all, their total pension payments are around £5k a month so I don't know if they can actually get any other benefits.

The total care bill per month for both of them is £2300 with £934 rent on top, and £590 for two dinners every day from the on site cafe. They then have Council tax, Sky - which is phone, TV and internet and to be fair with my mum in bed all day I can see why she would want that, £430 pm loan, and two credit card payments, add in the life insurances and we are at £5k. So they have nothing left for the extras they need, such as clothes, toiletries, food for the other meals, and anything else that might crop up. 

It hasn't been helped in that my dad has been needing more care recently, and he has been spending a lot on Amazon it seems, on what we have no idea! I have taken his cards off him now, I just wish they had spoken to me about it before, I have been asking repeatedly if everything is ok and for power of attorney, I might have been able to make it a little less worse but now they are too far gone  

I will have to lay it all on the line to social services tomorrow and hope that we can get something sorted for them quickly. 

It's just so sad, they worked so hard all their lives and now this. 

Doucam67

That's interesting about writing the debt off, although I am not sure what we do about the rent and care aspects that they owe which will be around £10k by the end of February. 

A call to a solicitors is also in order I think. 

stripling

Doucam67 said:

That's interesting about writing the debt off, although I am not sure what we do about the rent and care aspects that they owe which will be around £10k by the end of February. 

A call to a solicitors is also in order I think. 

The others know the debt stuff - I don't - but I do know the health & social care system. 

For the purposes of assessing their care costs/financial assistance their 'assets' - income etc., are split in half on paper no matter who has what. A person becomes eligible for some help when they cross the assets line of £23,000 (not exact but approx.) then it's a sliding scale down to £14,000

Usually, these days, councils will pay for domiciliary care *up to* the cost of a care home. If it exceeds that cost they usually force a care home. 
If they have to go into a care home, unless your dad's dementia comes with 'complex needs' there's no reason why your parents should have to be separated. 

***I would suggest joining the Alzheimer's Society forum which is a fantastic source of information and support. Az Soc also have a helpline. Don't assume the LA will always do what's best. Get armed up with info before dealing with them.  I cannot recommend the Az Society enough. It is a mine of information and support.

If your dad hasn't lost mental capacity then get those LPAs in place asap. Finance AND Health & Welfare - then you will have an easier time further down the line. It's tough dealing with this stuff in our decimated social care system but as I said - knowledge is power and there is support and advice. Best of luck. 

prettyandfluffy

This is a very minor item among all the outgoings you have listed so please don't be offended by this suggestion; my MIL has these meals and really enjoys them, Wiltshire farm foods.com  It might help reduce the outgoings a bit if feasible? I know they are nice because I tried them when I organised them for my Grandmother.

I Hope you are able to get everything sorted out satisfactorily.