Ownership of river next to property

Jack_Hunter18

Hi @Land_Registry

I was hoping to get some advice regarding a river that runs adjacent to my property. The house I live in is situated on a private road that has 3 houses. Adjacent to the houses is a small river and the other side of the river is a large unmaintained wooded area. The river on my land is protected by a small wall and when the house was purchased nothing was mentioned regarding ownership of the river and the land registry document we were given shows our ownership ending at the wall. 

Recently a culvert that bridges the river just where the wall ends outside my land had collapsed causing a large amount of debris to block the river, with the recent rainfall the river has looked dangerously close to overflowing a few times.

I have contacted my local housing association that owns the wooded area the other side of the river believing they would be responsible for the upkeep of the river in the hope they would remove the debris and make good to the damage but they have sent one of their employees out with a land map that shows their boundary line for ownership falls just outside the river next to my property. Strangely the land map they have shows they own the river to either side of my property but for some reason where the river runs along my property it looks like it may be unclaimed.

My question is what happens in this instance? Ideally I would like to get something official in writing stating that the river does not come under my responsibility, as the housing association clearly owns the river either side of my property. My worry is should any flooding occur I could potentially be liable for future costs.

The housing association have written to confirm they are looking into the matter and that 'hopefully we can come to a mutual agreement'. What I don't want to happen is the housing association to try and claim 'Riperian Rights' whereby I would be responsible for half of the river. If I was made aware I could potentially be responsible for the upkeep of a river I would never have purchased the property.

Is there a way of obtaining an exact boundary line that would show the river is not on my land (at the moment it's a coarse red line that is hard to match up)?

If in fact the small portion of river is on unclaimed land, who would be responsible for the upkeep and maintenance?

Many Thanks    

DullGreyGuy

My limited understanding is that if your land borders a waterway then you are the riparian owner and effectively own up to the middle of the waterway unless someone clearly owns it. Effectively you therefore jointly own it with the housing association and so will need to come to an agreement about clearing the blockage. 

Wonka_2

DullGreyGuy said:

My limited understanding is that if your land borders a waterway then you are the riparian owner and effectively own up to the middle of the waterway unless someone clearly owns it. Effectively you therefore jointly own it with the housing association and so will need to come to an agreement about clearing the blockage. 

Maybe depends on the river as per the attached - in my locality 'ownership' doesn't even include the banks, let alone the river

Missing Parcel of Land on land registry plan — MoneySavingExpert Forum

DullGreyGuy

Wonka_2 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

My limited understanding is that if your land borders a waterway then you are the riparian owner and effectively own up to the middle of the waterway unless someone clearly owns it. Effectively you therefore jointly own it with the housing association and so will need to come to an agreement about clearing the blockage. 

Maybe depends on the river as per the attached - in my locality 'ownership' doesn't even include the banks, let alone the river

Missing Parcel of Land on land registry plan — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Your deeds show your property doesn't directly border the river and so yes that would be different, it sounds like the OP in this case does run to the banks of the river and hence being a riparian owner. 

To choose a random council https://www.barnet.gov.uk/environmental-problems/flood-and-water-management/what-riparian-owner with a further link on to the governmental advice

MobileSaver

Jack_Hunter18 said:

the land registry document we were given shows our ownership ending at the wall. 

 What I don't want to happen is the housing association to try and claim 'Riperian Rights' whereby I would be responsible for half of the river.

I'm afraid that in the absence of proof that someone else owns the land between the wall and the river then under common law you are the Riparian Landowner as it applies where the river is adjacent to your boundary even if the river itself is currently outside of the land you own according to the Land Registry.

Grizebeck

Wonka_2 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

My limited understanding is that if your land borders a waterway then you are the riparian owner and effectively own up to the middle of the waterway unless someone clearly owns it. Effectively you therefore jointly own it with the housing association and so will need to come to an agreement about clearing the blockage. 

Maybe depends on the river as per the attached - in my locality 'ownership' doesn't even include the banks, let alone the river

Missing Parcel of Land on land registry plan — MoneySavingExpert Forum

This was sorted and the parcel of land next to river was added on the title plan

Grizebeck

DullGreyGuy said:

Wonka_2 said:

DullGreyGuy said:

My limited understanding is that if your land borders a waterway then you are the riparian owner and effectively own up to the middle of the waterway unless someone clearly owns it. Effectively you therefore jointly own it with the housing association and so will need to come to an agreement about clearing the blockage. 

Maybe depends on the river as per the attached - in my locality 'ownership' doesn't even include the banks, let alone the river

Missing Parcel of Land on land registry plan — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Your deeds show your property doesn't directly border the river and so yes that would be different, it sounds like the OP in this case does run to the banks of the river and hence being a riparian owner. 

To choose a random council https://www.barnet.gov.uk/environmental-problems/flood-and-water-management/what-riparian-owner with a further link on to the governmental advice

Agh indeed and we own part of the island to boot:)
Currently in the middle of renovating the house. Fun times
Luckily enough to strike oil on the back yard. Unfortunately only a bit of contaminated ground !

ProDave

If there is a wall, and your boundary is the wall, then someone else, or nobody, owns the thin strip of land between the wall and the river bank.

Presumably the housing association owned the whole lot and developed the site and sold the houses?  So if they only sold you up to the wall they probably own the rest.  Or are they trying to pass ownership to you to avoid a bill?

P.S I am a riparian owner having a small burn pass through our garden.  It is a nice garden feature.

Grizebeck

ProDave said:

If there is a wall, and your boundary is the wall, then someone else, or nobody, owns the thin strip of land between the wall and the river bank.

Presumably the housing association owned the whole lot and developed the site and sold the houses?  So if they only sold you up to the wall they probably own the rest.  Or are they trying to pass ownership to you to avoid a bill?

P.S I am a riparian owner having a small burn pass through our garden.  It is a nice garden feature.

I think it makes something a bit more unique

fourmarks

ProDave said:

If there is a wall, and your boundary is the wall, then someone else, or nobody, owns the thin strip of land between the wall and the river bank.

Presumably the housing association owned the whole lot and developed the site and sold the houses?  So if they only sold you up to the wall they probably own the rest.  Or are they trying to pass ownership to you to avoid a bill?

P.S I am a riparian owner having a small burn pass through our garden.  It is a nice garden feature.

At first glance I thought you had a small bum passing through your garden.