Overstay (or underpayment) by matter of minutes - very reasonable reasons

BlueberrySpiceHead

Hi All,

As the keeper of a car, I received a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper.

I think my best and only option is Plan A - appeal to the landowner, which I believe is Umberslade. I was not able to find any other appeals to this landowner, and only have the general email address for them (enquiries@ ...) so was hoping for advice on how to find any other contacts and how to frame this appeal/complaint to them. 

I've done my best to align to FAQ and guidance from other similar posts - but please let me know if I can provide anything else or if I've missed anything.

Thank you so much for all your work and help!

Here is the situation:

• The vehicle was parked on a private property (off road) car park, managed by Euro Car Parks on the 3rd of February 2024
• The first thing I received was a parking charge notice for £100, issued on the 8th of February 2024, and received via post on the 12th of February 2024 - nothing was left on the vehicle
• The vehicle was parked in Wapping Wharf - Bristol, site number 2224
• The alleged offence was: "The P&D/Permit purchased did not cover the date and time of parking" (link: PCN front and link: PCN Back)
• The PCN - claims that the vehicle entered the carpark at 13:03 and left at 17:26.
• The driver of the vehicle paid at the machine for 4 hours of parking, commencing at 13:09, and as such, had a valid parking contract until 17:09 (proof is linked below in Link 3)
• The driver of the vehicle began returning to the parking at 16:46, and returned to the car by 17:07pm - within the parking period, and has proof of this from google maps trips and time stamp details. (linked below)
• Furthermore, it was an extremely rainy day, and the driver had slipped and fell on the walk back to the car park, and triggered a hip injury - the driver has proof of a physiotherapy visit in November 2023 for this injury if verification is needed
• Upon returning to the carpark, in pain, and in the rain - the driver was unable to see any details on the signage (link below - although this is an outdated only from google - the driver is unlikely to be able to go to the location of the carpark in the near future to take photos) as to a grace period to exit the car park
• Given all of these conditions, the driver of the vehicle therefore, may indeed have vacated the parking space itself before the end of their parking period, but due to physical pain, poor phone reception, poor visibility and some congestion in the carpark, the driver required time to enter their destination details, find the exit of the car park, and exit the facilities - thus causing the delay before the exit of the car park (17 minutes). 

I can't seem to post links as a new joiner to the forum - but have bbimg links of the PCN NTK, travel logs from google maps from the driver, and pictures of the payment receipt from the ticket machine from the driver. 

I've started a draft appeal to the landowner - using softer language to try to appeal to common sense and goodwill - and would appreciate your thoughts! 

Re PCN number: xxx

Dear Sir / Mdm,

I am writing to appeal Parking Charge Notice XXXXX, issued on 3rd February 2024 for parking at Whapping Wharf, Bristol, as the keeper of the vehicle.

Euro Car Parks, who act as the carpark operators on your behalf have issued an excessive and unfair charge of £100 for an unavoidable period of only 17 minutes without a valid parking ticket. 

I would like to request that you please consider my appeal that this is an unfair and excessive charge due and unforeseen and unavoidable circumstances in the form of a physical injury, dark, rainy conditions, poor mobile reception and congestion in the carpark. These factors resulted in the driver simply requiring a bit more time to leave the carpark on the day. 

The sequence of events on the day are as follows: 
1. The driver purchased a parking ticket and entered into a parking contract with you at 13:09, for a period of 4 hours, thus creating a valid parking contract until 17:09. This is attached in the photo of the payment slip. 

2. The driver ate brunch in a restaurant in the Wapping Wharf area, and enjoyed a day in Bristol.  

3. The driver of the vehicle has provided proof that they began returning to the car at 16:46, and returned to the carpark by 17:07pm - as per the attached google maps trip logs, including timestamps. Note that they returned to the car before the end of their parking contract. 

4. During this return, in a rush to return to the carpark in a timely fashion, due to the rainy conditions and poorly maintained footpaths near the carpark, the driver slipped and fell on the way back to the car, causing significant pain - and flaring up a pre-existing hip injury.
If required, the driver is able to verify this injury by providing proof of a physiotherapy visit in November. [Would attach physio invoice with names redacted] 

5. Upon returning to the carpark, due to the pain they were in and the dark, rainy conditions, the driver was unable to see details on the signage as to the grace period within which they would need to exit the carpark - however, the driver politely vacated the actual parking spot for another driver, and took a brief moment to recover from their injury, and enter in their next destination into the GPS - this took more time due to a lack of mobile reception - and the driver wanted to be safe, and not drive on public roads while trying to use their GPS. 

6. Furthermore, given the dark rainy conditions and congestion in the carpark, the driver then required additional time to find the exit of this carpark.

I kindly request once again that, as the landowner, you exercise your power to ask that Euro Car Parks cancel this parking charge notice. 

I would be happy to pay you the minor fee difference of an additional £4.50 to have paid for a full days parking if required, as the driver is an honest and fair user of car parks, and this was a genuinely unavoidable situation. 

I would also advise that you review Euro Car Parks conditions and policies, as such unreasonable behaviour will leave an unfortunate and sour taste for future customers and visitors to the Wapping Wharf development. 

Kind regards,

[My name here] 

BlueberrySpiceHead

Here are the relevant photos/evidence - just need to copy/paste the links into your browser - sorry! 
PCN NTK Front: https://ibb.co/m4fpJDx
PCN NTK Back: https://ibb.co/ZVjgCwN
Parking payment receipt: https://ibb.co/kyw20Jg
Google maps timestamps: https://ibb.co/j8RbZyQ
Google signage of parking signs 1: https://ibb.co/hWdHr5V
Google signage of parking signs 2: https://ibb.co/bgDTK5D
Google signage of parking signs 3: https://ibb.co/hLzXkMq
Google signage of parking signs 4: https://ibb.co/XzCtrmt

Fruitcake

Plan A is a complaint, not an appeal, from the keeper to the landowner and the keeper's MP. They should state that the driver suffered an injury on their return to the vehicle that caused a frustration of contract. (If ANPR was used, state this, and that it only records time on site, not parking time).

Plan B is to appeal to the PPC using the template in blue text from the NEWBIES sticky Announcement. Check the NTK to see if it was or was not PoFA compliant. You can do this by comparing it with the requirements of the PoFA 2012, or the NTKs in the phot thread, or post a redacted version here for the regulars to revue.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up here before.

Coupon-mad

A complaint should be short.

About the injury (you were an occupant of the car) and saying how shocked you are BUT NOT SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING!

BlueberrySpiceHead

Thanks all! 

These are all the pics i can provide including NTK 
PCN NTK Front: https://ibb.co/m4fpJDx
PCN NTK Back: https://ibb.co/ZVjgCwN
Parking payment receipt: https://ibb.co/kyw20Jg
Google maps timestamps: https://ibb.co/j8RbZyQ
Google signage of parking signs 1: https://ibb.co/hWdHr5V
Google signage of parking signs 2: https://ibb.co/bgDTK5D
Google signage of parking signs 3: https://ibb.co/hLzXkMq
Google signage of parking signs 4: https://ibb.co/XzCtrmt

The alleged event occured at Bristol Wapping Wharf - landowner seems to be Umberslade. 
I did a search for both and did find another case with Umberslade - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5820053/euro-car-park-charging-for-disabled-parking/p1 
but they had slightly different case due to disabilities. 

Would something like the below work better for complaint to Umberslade?
I have about 1 week left to appeal the PCN, so hoping to send complaint to landowner asap, then appeal the PCN with plan B letter to buy more time if needed - but am 99% sure plan B will just be rejected by ECP. 


-------

Re PCN number: xxx

Dear Sir / Mdm,

I am writing to express my outrage in regards to Parking Charge Notice XXXXX, issued on 3rd February 2024 for parking at Whapping Wharf, Bristol, as an occupant of the vehicle, and request that you please exercise your power to demand that Euro Car Parks cancel the aforementioned parking charge notice. 

Euro Car Parks, who act as the carpark operators on your behalf have issued an excessive and unfair charge of £100 for an unavoidable period of only 17 minutes additional required in the carpark - based entirely upon  the ANPR and not taking into account reasonable and unavoidable delays. 

The driver did purchase a parking ticket, from 13:09 for 4 hours - thus, valid until 17:09. This receipt is attached. 
After dining in your development, I fell and triggered an old injured on the way back to the car. I can support this claim with an invoice from my physiotherapist in November. 
However, the group still returned to the car before the end of the valid parking ticket. This can be proved with google maps timestamps (attached). 
Upon returning to the car, due to my injury and pain, congestion in the carpark and dark rainy conditions, we required extra time to exit the premises. However, we did in fact, vacate the parking spot for another customer, but needed a few extra minutes to actually drive back out through the gates while I was in pain, and waiting for mobile signal to enter the next destination into the GPS. 

I request once again that, as the landowner, you exercise your power to ask that Euro Car Parks cancel this unfair and excessive parking charge notice. 

I would be happy to pay you the minor fee difference of an additional £4.50 to have paid for a full days parking if required, as the driver is an honest and fair user of car parks, and this was a genuinely unavoidable situation. 

I would also advise that you review Euro Car Parks conditions and policies, as such unreasonable behaviour will leave an unfortunate and sour taste for future customers and visitors to the Wapping Wharf development. 

Kind regards,

[My name here] 

Coupon-mad

Looks good - except remove 'aforementioned' and do attach a copy of the PCN so they can cancel it.

Trainerman

Technically, it should be Yours faithfully at the end, not kind regards

1505grandad

Typo?  -  "... I fell and triggered an old injured on the way back to the car."

BlueberrySpiceHead

Thanks so much everyone - typos have also been corrected - especially to Yours Faithfully  

Fingers crossed and I'll post back here with updates if I hear anything back. 

BlueberrySpiceHead

Hi Everyone

Plan A worked! 

Please see the below response from the land owner - after a few days of me persistently emailing and calling everyone i could find related to the land and development. 

"Hello ...

Thankyou for your email, I have been forwarded your emails by several of my colleagues.

I have read your email and understand the frustration.

Although you parked in the car park for longer than you had paid for, which in all cases would result in a fine. On this occasion, as a gesture of good will, I am willing to cancel this PCN for you.

Please understand that this is not something I will be able to do again. " 

Thank you all for your help - and i hope this thread helps someone else in a similar situation! 

pustit

Reply telling him it can never be a fine.