Deceased Father's investments

Shellbells510

My Dad passed May 2023. We believed everything was straightforward then when sorting out paperwork came across a number of items (shares? Bonds?) that we weren't aware of. 

We are getting conflicting information as to their value. The IFA we contacted isn't much help either.

Some are through computershare and some through equiniti.  Both have asked for probate.

We have probate and we know details of shares/!bonds but they wont tell us a value. 

We don't know if to transfer or sell. If we transfer and they are worth a bit how does capital gains work?

Are we better just selling everything so my mums knows how much money she has and can reinvest if needs be.

It's really getting me down that can't get any straight answers just loads of bloody forms to fill in .

The details of what we have found are:

Bank of Scotland 9.375 Perpetual subordinated bonds (x 1000)

Co op group 11% final repayment subordinated notes ( x 1688)

Newcastle 12.625% Permanent interest bearing shares ( x 2000)

If anyone can spread some.light, in simple English before I have a breakdown I'd be extremely grateful 🙏 

tetrarch

Dealing with Equiniti is an exercise in patience. Sometimes, you have to ask questions incrementally and extremely precisely to get the answers you want

Are you able to share a redacted copy of the letter from Equiniti and computershare?

Regards

Tet

eskbanker

Shellbells510 said:

We don't know if to transfer or sell. If we transfer and they are worth a bit how does capital gains work?

Selling shares or property

If you sell shares, investments or property that belong to the estate you may have to pay Capital Gains Tax on them if either:

• they’ve gone up in value since the person died
• they’ve gone up in value since being valued for Inheritance Tax

You do not pay Capital Gains Tax from the estate if you transfer assets directly to a beneficiary, for example property.

https://www.gov.uk/probate-estate/managing-and-selling-assets

Keep_pedalling

Shellbells510 said:

My Dad passed May 2023. We believed everything was straightforward then when sorting out paperwork came across a number of items (shares? Bonds?) that we weren't aware of. 

We are getting conflicting information as to their value. The IFA we contacted isn't much help either.

Some are through computershare and some through equiniti.  Both have asked for probate.

We have probate and we know details of shares/!bonds but they wont tell us a value. 

We don't know if to transfer or sell. If we transfer and they are worth a bit how does capital gains work?

Are we better just selling everything so my mums knows how much money she has and can reinvest if needs be.

It's really getting me down that can't get any straight answers just loads of bloody forms to fill in .

The details of what we have found are:

Bank of Scotland 9.375 Perpetual subordinated bonds (x 1000)

Co op group 11% final repayment subordinated notes ( x 1688)

Newcastle 12.625% Permanent interest bearing shares ( x 2000)

If anyone can spread some.light, in simple English before I have a breakdown I'd be extremely grateful 🙏 

None of those are company shares, they are interest baring bonds, and quite high paying ones at that. Probably worth holding on to for the income they will generate.

wmb194

There was a recent thread on the Newcastle 12.625% (12 5/8%) PIBs, see link below. When you Google them they appear to be quoted at c.£170 but I think the correct answer is that you should read it as pence, 170p - see the comment by @JanetSaving - so 2,000 PIBs * 170p = £3,400.

This probably goes for the others as well but there is a way to sense check the value: they pay interest every six months so if you can find the deposits on bank statements or see whether Equiniti of Computershare will tell you what the last ones were you can work it out e.g., 2,000 * 12.625p / 2 = £126.25 will be the amount due every six months if the above is correct.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6495233/newcastle-building-society-pibs/p1

dunstonh

We are getting conflicting information as to their value. The IFA we contacted isn't much help either.

IFAs don't generally deal with shares or directly quoted bonds and the administrators/brokers for shares/bonds don't normally deal with IFAs.   So, there is little help an IFA can give you.    The items held are things stockbrokers deal with if you don't fancy it yourself.  Or a professional executor.

xylophone

• We believed everything was straightforward then when sorting out paperwork came across a number of items (shares? Bonds?) that we weren't aware of. 

  So that they were not valued for probate?  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/h/halifax-9-38-perpetual-subordinated-bds
  

  https://oblible.com/bond-GB0005242879.htm
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/co-operative-group-ltd-11-2025
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-12.625-pibs
  

  
  

  And note  see the comment by @JanetSaving - so 2,000 PIBs * 170p = £3,400.

  
  

  
  

• 
  

poseidon1

xylophone said:

• We believed everything was straightforward then when sorting out paperwork came across a number of items (shares? Bonds?) that we weren't aware of. 

  So that they were not valued for probate?  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/h/halifax-9-38-perpetual-subordinated-bds
  

  https://oblible.com/bond-GB0005242879.htm
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/co-operative-group-ltd-11-2025
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-12.625-pibs
  

  
  

  And note  see the comment by @JanetSaving - so 2,000 PIBs * 170p = £3,400.

  
  

  
  

• 
  

I get the impression 'mum' may been the primary beneficiary of father's estate so even if not included in the estate value for IHT/probate purposes no harm done - iht exempt transfer to mum.

As for CGT on estate potential sale, these bonds/pibs should  all be cgt exempt as various specie of ' qualifying corporate bonds', therefore can safely be sold without fear of cgt, either by the estate or by mum if the bonds are appointed to her.

 However, any sales are likely to include an element of accrued interest at date of sale ( this will be separately identified on the contract note) , so either the estate or mum will have a potential income tax exposure thereon. This can be mitigated by timing sales just after last payment of half yearly interest.

In view of the estate likely being iht exempt ( inherited by mum) and the bonds cgt exempt ( whoever sells), can probably getaway without valuation for tax purposes, although for investment monitoring purposes it would be helpful to know how theses stockmarket securities are performing since father's death.

spider42

poseidon1 said:

xylophone said:

• We believed everything was straightforward then when sorting out paperwork came across a number of items (shares? Bonds?) that we weren't aware of. 

  So that they were not valued for probate?  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/h/halifax-9-38-perpetual-subordinated-bds
  

  https://oblible.com/bond-GB0005242879.htm
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/c/co-operative-group-ltd-11-2025
  

  
  

  https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/n/newcastle-building-society-12.625-pibs
  

  
  

  And note  see the comment by @JanetSaving - so 2,000 PIBs * 170p = £3,400.

  
  

  
  

• 
  

However, any sales are likely to include an element of accrued interest at date of sale ( this will be separately identified on the contract note) , so either the estate or mum will have a potential income tax exposure thereon. This can be mitigated by timing sales just after last payment of half yearly interest.

The accrued income scheme only applies if the nominal value of all bonds held was more than £5,000. Based on the information in the original post, then the newly discovered holdings are just under that. But accrued income may still be in point if there were any other bond holdings included in the "original" holdings that they were already aware of.

In any event, I don't think timing a sale until just after an interest payment would mitigate Income Tax exposure, as there would still tax to pay on the actual receipt of the half yearly interest instead.

If the total nominal value of all holdings is under £5,000, then tax would be mitigated by selling just before the ex-interest date. That way, the actual interest isn't received, and the accrued interest on sale would not fall under the accrued income scheme and so wouldn't be taxed either.