Home Care financial assessments

CCCanaries

I have recently claimed Attendance Allowance for my brother in law who has severe health issues, and has council arranged carers coming in 4 times / day/every day.  His wife died a couple of months ago, she previously dealt with all admin and finance matters, albeit she had MH issues in the latter couple of years.  I am now the Appointee for my BIL and had told family members to let me know if DWP needed any info etc.
Last week I was shown a copy of a letter from the Council, confirming that they had done a Financial Assessment for BIL for his home care, and he was was required to pay £33 per week towards his care, full cost £522/week.  The Assessment was based on info held and that if anything had changed we should contact them.  So I thought I need to let them know he is now getting AA.  The figures on the assessment for rent etc did not match the much higher actual figures, and there was also a figure "Tariff Income on Capital" which I didnt understand.  I sent them an email to advise of AA and ask for clarification of the figures.  No reply yet.  Since then I have looked on the internet to try and understand this Financial Assessment more, and I am shocked to learn, that if money in account is over £23,250 care cost must be paid in full.  Basically when the 1st assessment was done end 2022, both BIL and SIL alive, so monies in bank and payments rent etc split between the two of them.  Now she has died, money in joint bank acc all in BIL name, so well over the £23k figure.  No other assets, no property etc.  Sister in law did not leave a will, but it was understood that her half of the money would be split between her 2 brothers.  This was not done immediately as the family wanted to be sure that BIL had sufficient money to continue with his care and general rent costs etc.  Now however, if we were to transfer the money to brothers, then I assume we will be accused of  Deprivation of Assets.  So inadvertently by claiming AA, I have potentially opened up a can of worms and BIL and family stand to loose a significant amount of money.
Is there any way to split the money, ie. move half the money which was the money of my Sister in law so that this can be distributed as per her wishes ?  As said no Will to this effect.  No Probate or Letters of Administration - these were not required as their only assets was the cash in their joint account.  Help please ??

Savvy_Sue

I am sorry but I don't think anyone can give you much reassurance here, beyond pointing out that even if you hadn't claimed AA then it is likely that your BiL's savings would have been over the limit anyway and he would be liable to pay for all his home care. 

To be clear: without a will, then you are right that transferring his wife's half of the joint account to her brothers would be seen as deprivation of assets. If there was anything at all in writing, it might be arguable, but I'm guessing there wasn't?

I believe that 'Tariff Income on Capital' is the assumption that any money in an account will be generating a certain amount of interest. 

Tariff Income on Capital: this is the official explanation from any one of a number of local authorities. 
Tariff income is calculated as follows: The first £6,000 of your savings is disregarded (ignored). For every £250 (or part of £250) you have over £6,000, we have to add £1.00 "Tariff Income" to your weekly income. £7,000 capital would require us to add £4 to your weekly income.

I think that the assumption is that he can earn interest on all his income. Unlikely that he can earn that much interest, but a figure has to be used. 

Telling them the correct amount for his rent is wise. 

It may be worth contacting AgeUK or any similar organisations in your area to check that your BiL is receiving all the benefits that he is entitled to (probably over the limit for Pension Credit but no harm checking) and that your understanding is correct. Also, there may be a request to backdate payment for carers: I am not sure if this can be done or not but you may be able to get help negotiating any backpayments. 

Savvy_Sue

Actually, another thought: does anyone hold Power of Attorney for your BiL? If not, is he able to grant this? Because as Appointee, I am not sure how far you can go in making payments from his accounts etc. 

And there ARE things which money can be spent on which would not count as Deprivation of Assets. For example, a funeral plan, or equipment to make his life easier, or home improvements (which might be tricky in a rented property - is this a private landlord or Housing Association or local authority?)

Once BiL is below that upper limit, then his contribution to his care reduces, so watch how the money goes. 

CCCanaries

Thanks for your comments.  I am coming round to the fact, that we probably have no avenues to avoid paying in full for his care, until his bank balance reduces below the £23,250 figure.

Savvy_Sue

And remember, if he's paying personally, he has options! There's a limit to how much the local authority will provide, but if a gardener, cleaner, preparer of meals, companion for visits and outings etc etc etc would be helpful, then these are likely to be perfectly reasonable expenses. 

Also taxis to and from appointments and activities. 

elsien

Any money in a joint account would automatically become his on her death, and would be outside of the estate had a will been made. 

So it was never going to go to the other brothers anyway, and nothing has been triggered by your AA claim because his existing change of circumstances would have merited another financial assessment anyway.

As above, being his appointee does not allow you to access his bank account if he loses capacity.  So if he is still able to make a power of attorney, it would be a good idea to do that now. If he already lacks financial capacity, then someone should be applying for deputy ship through the court protection as a priority, for the amount of money that he has. 

CCCanaries

Thanks for the clarification in your first comment, that makes me feel a little better.  Re the second point he still has mental capacity and is perfectly able to manage his bank account.  He would be/was happy to share some money with his BILs, but as said, I think this is now not feasible, due to the fact that this would be deemed deprivation of assets.  I have now spoken with a couple of agencies and I think this is clear, there is nothing which can be done, but accept the situation.  Thanks for your response.

Albermarle

CCCanaries said:

Thanks for the clarification in your first comment, that makes me feel a little better.  Re the second point he still has mental capacity and is perfectly able to manage his bank account.  He would be/was happy to share some money with his BILs, but as said, I think this is now not feasible, due to the fact that this would be deemed deprivation of assets.  I have now spoken with a couple of agencies and I think this is clear, there is nothing which can be done, but accept the situation.  Thanks for your response.

Regardless of the situation about care fees, the advice below is very good and should be actioned.

So if he is still able to make a power of attorney, it would be a good idea to do that now.

Cairnpapple

He may also wish to make a will that would distribute some money to the BILs if he were to die suddenly (assuming that he doesn't currently have a will to that effect).

CCCanaries

He does have a Will made out to his BIL's.  Power of Attorney is something we are considering.

elsien

He doesn’t need a solicitor to make powers of attorney, it can be done within information online and then printing off the forms – £82 ( I think it is each) one for finances and one for health and welfare.