Need some advice to help my friend who has been the victim of a scam

swm039

Hello! I am here to get some advice on behalf of my friend who has been victim of a scam she is in a lot of depression because she has lost lot of money and not in a position to do this by herself.  She has shared what happened to her and I am trying to get as much help as possible to get her money back.

About scam:

My friend was contacted on WhatsApp (trainer) about a remote online job,  it was ASO (App Store Optimisation) job where she has to submit tasks to improve App ratings and increase installations,  in return she earns commission and basic salary all in the form of crypto.  Sometimes there are combo tasks that can take balance to negative which she had to clear by converting her money into crypto and depositing on the platform.  She is novice and didn't know much about crypto, once her training was over she started the job she was earning good commission and also getting basic salary and was able to withdraw for few times without getting any combo tasks but as she progressed she started to get some negative balances but on the other side she was earning more and when she upgraded her membership that is when she got bigger negative balances however her trainer helped to clear some of those also giving her reassurance that she will get all the fund back once she finish all the tasks but eventually when she finished scammer didn't let her withdraw but instead kept asking for more money by giving silly reasons such as upgrade to higher level, pay tax, increase credit points etc..,  as a third person I can see the scammers were quite manipulative here they literally allowed to earn money and built the trust and also helped in clearing negative balances not only that there was WhatsApp group chat too where everyone showing off the commission they earned from platform.  I have seen other scams such as scammer asking for details and pretending to be from bank or asking to download malwares but this scam looks way more sophisticated may be it's just me but scammer lets you earn money is something I never heard before as it was the case here in the beginning.

Need advice:

This scam has been reported as soon as it was clear that she has been scammed to the Action Fraud and also to the bank from where the transactions took place.  Just to be clear scammer made her open account on crypto exchange so money was going from bank to her own crypto wallet and from there it went to scammer's crypto wallets. 

During the scam her bank did warn her but that was at the very beginning and of smaller amount but since the money was going to her own crypto wallet the suspension was lifted and after that many transactions of bigger amounts happened on consecutive days but her bank didn't give her any more warning and didn't stop the transactions from taking place.

I believe this can fall into App scams category but unfortunately her bank is not signed up to App scams code but it is FCA regulated are there any chances for her to get reimbursed if she takes this to financial ombudsman?  it has been over one and half month since she reported scam to her bank but her bank is still investigating and no update what so ever is this still within allowed investigation time for bank? 

ArbitraryRandom

You can generally refer something to the FOSA after 8 weeks - but they may say the bank has a legitimate reason for needing longer to investigate (they might then give you an idea of timescales in which you can take it back to them) or that they can't help with this issue. 

I'd give them a call on 0800 023 4567 (first thing in the morning mid-week is normally easiest) 

eskbanker

swm039 said:

Just to be clear scammer made her open account on crypto exchange so money was going from bank to her own crypto wallet and from there it went to scammer's crypto wallets. 

During the scam her bank did warn her but that was at the very beginning and of smaller amount but since the money was going to her own crypto wallet the suspension was lifted and after that many transactions of bigger amounts happened on consecutive days but her bank didn't give her any more warning and didn't stop the transactions from taking place.

I believe this can fall into App scams category but unfortunately her bank is not signed up to App scams code but it is FCA regulated are there any chances for her to get reimbursed if she takes this to financial ombudsman?  it has been over one and half month since she reported scam to her bank but her bank is still investigating and no update what so ever is this still within allowed investigation time for bank? 

If she was transferring money from her bank to her own crypto wallet and satisfied the bank that this was what she wanted to do, despite the warnings, then I'm not convinced it's going to be viable to hold the bank responsible for subsequent losses after the money was moved on from that wallet, even if they were signatories to the APP code.  No harm in trying obviously, and escalating to FOS if that doesn't bear fruit (as above it needs to be eight weeks after logging a complaint, and then takes months), but in terms of setting expectations, it doesn't sound like the bank did much wrong....

Alderbank

This does not sound at all like a consumer contract. It sounds like an employment contract of some kind. Do you know whether it is a contract for services or (more likely) a contract of services?

How does your friend pay income tax and national insurance on their earnings?

Is their employer or contract principal in the UK?

RefluentBeans

I’m sorry to hear your friend is having difficulties. 

First thing I’d recommend doing is going to the police. Highly unlikely that the scammers are in the UK, but if they have a mule or some other sort of infrastructure, it at least limits other people getting into financial difficulties. 

As said above - doesn’t really fall under consumer rights - as the dealings was for employment. Additionally, your friend did clear the funds. From the banks perspective, they warned your friend and your friend did go ahead anyway. Nevertheless, banks do tend to have a fund to hell with these sort of situations, but I believe this is discretionary rather than a right, and it’s more to keep banks names out of the media a la ‘Barclays refused to refund my grandma for being scammed out of her life savings’ sort of headline.

Going forward, your friend should be a bit more weary of too-good-to-be-true opportunities. There’s loads of these sophisticated scams. And if this is an international scammer, chances are their details have been marked as a future target, and sold to other scammers. They shouldn’t feel embarrassed - being scammed can happen to anyone, and building up the thrust through a training person I think is a clever way to make people trust you, and overlook concerns they may have. 

I hope your friend isn’t too much out of pocket. Try and be supportive. Unfortunately there’s a lot of scams going around at the moment. If they’ve been left in debt, then signpost them to debt charities who can help resolve this. The sooner debt is realised, the lesser the impact on credit files etc can be. Most companies are receptive to putting holds on debts spiralling to give your friend some breathing room. 

Additionally, when they’re ready there’s YouTube videos on how these scams work. The more you know about these mechanics the more they can look out for the red flags. But that’s a more long term solution and don’t want to overwhelm your friend currently. 

otb666

My son got done my this same scam and lost £4200  has been reported to Action Fraud.  It have effected his confidence. Just wanted to let your friend know they are not alone in being conned.  Please let us know how you get on with getting your money back as his bank Lloyds did not refund him.  Also i am surprised there is not a scamming category on MSE Forum

eskbanker

otb666 said:

Also i am surprised there is not a scamming category on MSE Forum

Scams crop up in numerous different circumstances, so will rightly be discussed on disparate boards including investments, banking, credit cards, travel, etc, etc, as well as consumer rights, rather than being centralised as one big topic in their own right.

born_again

Which bank are you talking about here?
How were the payments made?
Makes a difference to it being a App Scam or not.

If the bank warned her, then they are covered. There is only so much banks can do in these situations. They can not simply say no & not make the payments.

swm039

eskbanker said:

swm039 said:

Just to be clear scammer made her open account on crypto exchange so money was going from bank to her own crypto wallet and from there it went to scammer's crypto wallets. 

During the scam her bank did warn her but that was at the very beginning and of smaller amount but since the money was going to her own crypto wallet the suspension was lifted and after that many transactions of bigger amounts happened on consecutive days but her bank didn't give her any more warning and didn't stop the transactions from taking place.

I believe this can fall into App scams category but unfortunately her bank is not signed up to App scams code but it is FCA regulated are there any chances for her to get reimbursed if she takes this to financial ombudsman?  it has been over one and half month since she reported scam to her bank but her bank is still investigating and no update what so ever is this still within allowed investigation time for bank? 

If she was transferring money from her bank to her own crypto wallet and satisfied the bank that this was what she wanted to do, despite the warnings, then I'm not convinced it's going to be viable to hold the bank responsible for subsequent losses after the money was moved on from that wallet, even if they were signatories to the APP code.  No harm in trying obviously, and escalating to FOS if that doesn't bear fruit (as above it needs to be eight weeks after logging a complaint, and then takes months), but in terms of setting expectations, it doesn't sound like the bank did much wrong....

sorry I may not have explained this properly but she was driven and guided by the scammer when bank gave warning and she followed scammer's instructions who also convinced her that it is a normal bank process she also has the evidences of scammer instructing on how to convert GBP to crypto etc..,  are these going to be any help if provided to FOSA?

eskbanker

swm039 said:

eskbanker said:

swm039 said:

Just to be clear scammer made her open account on crypto exchange so money was going from bank to her own crypto wallet and from there it went to scammer's crypto wallets. 

During the scam her bank did warn her but that was at the very beginning and of smaller amount but since the money was going to her own crypto wallet the suspension was lifted and after that many transactions of bigger amounts happened on consecutive days but her bank didn't give her any more warning and didn't stop the transactions from taking place.

I believe this can fall into App scams category but unfortunately her bank is not signed up to App scams code but it is FCA regulated are there any chances for her to get reimbursed if she takes this to financial ombudsman?  it has been over one and half month since she reported scam to her bank but her bank is still investigating and no update what so ever is this still within allowed investigation time for bank? 

If she was transferring money from her bank to her own crypto wallet and satisfied the bank that this was what she wanted to do, despite the warnings, then I'm not convinced it's going to be viable to hold the bank responsible for subsequent losses after the money was moved on from that wallet, even if they were signatories to the APP code.  No harm in trying obviously, and escalating to FOS if that doesn't bear fruit (as above it needs to be eight weeks after logging a complaint, and then takes months), but in terms of setting expectations, it doesn't sound like the bank did much wrong....

sorry I may not have explained this properly but she was driven and guided by the scammer when bank gave warning and she followed scammer's instructions who also convinced her that it is a normal bank process she also has the evidences of scammer instructing on how to convert GBP to crypto etc..,  are these going to be any help if provided to FOSA?

She should share all the evidence she has, both with the bank, and then to FOS, but the key point as I see it is that the bank transfer was to her own crypto wallet, and the scam itself was essentially the next link in the chain, where she relayed the contents of her wallet to the fraudster's one(s).  This has the effect of removing the bank from direct involvement in the scam, whereas if she'd transferred funds directly from her bank account to the fraudsters then it would be more likely to fall within the bank's responsibility, although if they're not participants in the APP CRM code and gave warnings then they're unlikely to be liable anyway....

swm039

RefluentBeans said:

I’m sorry to hear your friend is having difficulties. 

First thing I’d recommend doing is going to the police. Highly unlikely that the scammers are in the UK, but if they have a mule or some other sort of infrastructure, it at least limits other people getting into financial difficulties. 

As said above - doesn’t really fall under consumer rights - as the dealings was for employment. Additionally, your friend did clear the funds. From the banks perspective, they warned your friend and your friend did go ahead anyway. Nevertheless, banks do tend to have a fund to hell with these sort of situations, but I believe this is discretionary rather than a right, and it’s more to keep banks names out of the media a la ‘Barclays refused to refund my grandma for being scammed out of her life savings’ sort of headline.

Going forward, your friend should be a bit more weary of too-good-to-be-true opportunities. There’s loads of these sophisticated scams. And if this is an international scammer, chances are their details have been marked as a future target, and sold to other scammers. They shouldn’t feel embarrassed - being scammed can happen to anyone, and building up the thrust through a training person I think is a clever way to make people trust you, and overlook concerns they may have. 

I hope your friend isn’t too much out of pocket. Try and be supportive. Unfortunately there’s a lot of scams going around at the moment. If they’ve been left in debt, then signpost them to debt charities who can help resolve this. The sooner debt is realised, the lesser the impact on credit files etc can be. Most companies are receptive to putting holds on debts spiralling to give your friend some breathing room. 

Additionally, when they’re ready there’s YouTube videos on how these scams work. The more you know about these mechanics the more they can look out for the red flags. But that’s a more long term solution and don’t want to overwhelm your friend currently. 

When you say that this doesn't really fall under consumer rights can you please explain bit more in detail? does that mean this can not be categorised as APP Scams?

She has reported to Action Fraud the same day she reported it to Bank but even from Action Fraud there is no update she has provided all the WhatsApp numbers, company names, transactions etc.., I also have searched online but not sure if there is any other effective way to get the police look into this.

As explained above my friend was driven by the scammers at the time when bank gave warning and also there are evidences of scammer making her do those transaction but not sure how much of help those can be.   About keeping the name out of media is that an option to get in touch and publish story how effective is that and how much risk involved? 

I am trying to support her as much as I can,  she has lost lot of money and also got debt however she also have a job so I will say she is surviving but let me know those debt charities and I will pass those to her so that she can get in touch if needed.