CEL letter before action help (I now have a court claim form??)

DisabledandConfused

Hello members of MSE,

I have only found this forum today and really wish I had found it sooner!

I have searched threads really similar to mine and also I have read the newbies faq thread but its all so much information in one go that my head is spinning and I need instructions spelling out to me. Im disabled (both physically and mentally) and have a blue badge that was on display as I was parked in a disabled bay.

I parked at St Helens, Mercure hotel's car park which states it is free parking for users of the hotel. I parked there to drop my friend who was staying there and went in with them and watched a movie before leaving. It was late at night so I didnt see any of the signs saying that for the parking to be valid I had to enter my registration at the front desk.  

I received, via post, this stupid invoice and disputed it saying I was a user of the hotel and the pakring was free but they maintained that i had breached the contract and owe them. I wrote to the hotel and they said this happens all the time?! and that there was nothing they could do about it. I tried to appeal and dispute it but it has been passed on to Civil Enforcement limited and I have now received a 'Letter before action - claim for debt' stating that on 09/06/2022 I parked in breach of terms and conditions on notice and that I owe 170 pounds.

Do I respond to this? Im so confused and overwhelmed by all the information and I need help with what to do next. If you google mercure St helens parking there are so many people caught out by this. When I went in to photograph the signage and speak to the people at the desk they were literally taking a call from someone complaining about the exact same thing!

Trainerman

First thought is ...do you have it in writing from the hotel that "this happens all the time"? Good evidence if you do.

If I was in your position, I would think there was a good defence to this. As far as the ' Letter before action' is concerned, does it give you 30 days to respond or only 14?

Debszzzz2

How far up the management food chain did you go at the hotel? Did they also stare in their correspondence that "there's nothing they could do about it"? If so, when you respond... as high up the management food chain as you can go, remind them that they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents. Ask who is the monkey and who is the organ grinder in their contractual relationship with their ex-clamper scammers?

DisabledandConfused

Trainerman said:

First thought is ...do you have it in writing from the hotel that "this happens all the time"? Good evidence if you do.

If I was in your position, I would think there was a good defence to this. As far as the ' Letter before action' is concerned, does it give you 30 days to respond or only 14?

I wish! It was the people at the front desk who I was explaining the situation to in person when I was there taking photos of the signage. They said it was entirely out of their control and 'thats a shame' etc

I was given 30 days to respond and I received the letter today although its dated 07/02/2024

Fruitcake

To give yourself more time, send a hold notice to CEL stating that whilst you deny the debt, you are seeking debt advice and require the case to be put on hold for 30 days as per court pre-action protocol. Do this around day 25 from the issue date of the letter before action.

Meanwhile, complain to the hotel manager and CEO, and your MP, then get photos of the site and signage, including inside. Also search the forum for "hidden tablet."

KeithP

But in your opening post you stated that you wrote to the hotel...

DisabledandConfused said:

I wrote to the hotel and they said this happens all the time?! and that there was nothing they could do about it.

That reply, if you still have it, would be quite useful.

Coupon-mad

The hotel can cancel this for you this week.

If they don't, just send the LBC reply shown in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread. No rush.

If they file a court claim it should be easy to get St Helen's court to strike out without a hearing, given CEL v Chan plus this St Helens hearing:

https://www.contestorlegal.co.uk/blog-3/5ck9buhl7w1y1x5mfixa01xrjh32gv

DisabledandConfused

This is the email I sent today to the manager of Mercure hotel St Helens:

Dear Sirs,

I am writing to you to complain about the awful treatment I have received after visiting the Mercure hotel in St Helens.

I visited your hotel on the 'DATE' and parked my vehicle with my disabled badge and timer on full display. It was late at night and dark and none of the signs were lit and there was nobody at the reception desk. I was watching a movie with a friend who I had dropped off there before heading back home for the evening. Imagine my surprise when I am issued a large fine despite all signage and online searching stating parking is free for guests. The signage by the disabled parking spaces is not lit and therefore not easily visible and the car park is poorly signed.

When I originally came back to the hotel to speak to your staff at the front desk about cancelling it, I was told there was nothing that could be done and I should just pay it! I find this to be inappropriate and I'm aware that as a hotel, you are most certainly responsible for the company you engage to manage your car park. Not only that but in the time that I was there complaining, another member of staff answered the phone to another person claiming the exact same issue!

I have been sent a letter before action from Civil Enforcement LTD requesting £170. This is a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists. It also constitutes harassment to continuously pursue me for nearly TWO YEARS with a fine that has been unjustly applied as there has been no losses by your hotel or the company you employ to manage it.

I am requesting that you get in contact with Civil Enforcement LTD and cancel this fine. I have been seeking legal advice over this matter.

The reference number is 'Number'

Yours Faithfully,
'My name'

DisabledandConfused

And this is the ridiculous response... SHAME ON YOU MERCURE ST HELENS

Hello 'MY NAME'

 

Re: Creative Parking Solutions – DATE OF ALLEGED OFFENSE – MY NAME- Mercure St Helens Hotel

 

I refer to your communication dated 20th February 2023 (NOTE THE INCORRECT DATE HERE) in connection your parking charge reference no (NUMBER) from Creative Parking Solutions whilst visiting our premises on the above mentioned date. Unfortunately I have received no communication from yourself since the charge was issued and due to the time passed albeit 21 months I would suggest to contact Creative Parking Solutions who will be able to assist.

 

I confirm the hotel carpark was maintained, managed and operated by Creative Parking Solutions at the time you received your parking notice in June 2022. Unfortunately the hotel are not authorised to get involved with Creative Parking Solutions parking Charges since they no longer operate our carpark.

 

As you were aware at the time you received your parking notice the hotel carpark did display signage throughout the carpark confirming the terms and conditions of parking. Signage are also located at the front door and are displayed in all public areas throughout the hotel. I understand any clients attending functions or events within the hotel are always informed about parking protocol. As you know, parking is free of charge to hotel, residents and leisure club members providing they register their vehicle at reception within 20 minutes

 

May I recommend you contact Creative Parking Solutions directly on 03330602490 who issued the charge directly or should you prefer you can write to them at Molteno House, 302 Regents Park Road, Finchley, London, N3 2J0, or go their website there web address can be found on your parking charge ticket.

 

The quicker you engage with the operator, the quicker any issues will be resolved. Contact details and how to appeal will be set out clearly on the PCN and any reminder letters you have since received.  Appeals should be submitted online within 28 days of the parking charge notice issue date. Please include all evidence to be relied on in support of your appeal and I am confident they will respond to you within a short space of time.

 

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused and trust you will be able to resolve the charge with Creative Parking Solutions soon.

 

Good Luck

 

Kind Regards

Daniel Stewart
General Manager

DisabledandConfused

I am absolutely appalled by their response. I stated in my email that im Dealing with Civil enforcement limited so it is clear they have not even ready my email and just copy and pasted a response.

Trainerman

Your first post said it had been "passed to Civil Enforcement Ltd", but they would appear to be the PPC. If they are the current PPC, employed after  Creative Parking Solutions were kicked out, then the Hotel DO still have clout and could get this stopped.

Might be worth another go at head office.