No response to appeal - Civil Enforcement

Tonibee9

First - I have spent many hours trying to figure out everything from the newbies and related threads and I'm posting as a last resort.

With an incident date of 24/11/23, I received a PCN (NTK) (no windscreen ticket) in the post with an issue date of 29/11/23 (rec'd 9/12/23). I chose the 'no-nonsense' approach but as the advice was not to send a complaint by post (not even recorded delivery) and there were no other contact details, I had no choice but to attach my complaint in the online appeal form on 22/12/23 and took a screenshot of the confirmation screen. I didn't name the driver. My appeal used the MSE template letter and I borrowed bits from other templates and also made my own technical arguments on the PFA. I stretched it out to six pages.

On 20/12/23, before the expiry of the 28 day appeal time limit, they sent me PCN (reminder before further action). I ignored that, having already sent an appeal. I have received no communication by post or email about the appeal.

On 6/2/24 they issued a 'first stage debt recovery letter'. It says the charge is £140 (mysteriously increased from £100 without explanation) and will increase to £170 if not paid within 14 days.

At this stage, I'm at a loss as to what to do next. My gut feeling is to continue to ignore and add the non-response to my appeal as a further defence in the event they eventually take me to court. I'll have no problem ignoring debt recovery letters so I'm content to wait it out until I get to the defending at court stage.

I've seen some advice suggesting complain to BPA and or DVLA about 'no POPLA code', but I'm unsure if that applies to me or what I should be saying. It's all very confusing. Is there something that I NEED to do to avoid losing? Any advice about what, if anything, I should do next would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Fruitcake

The CEL website directs motorists to their complaints policy that details how to make a complaint either by post or online, and includes a link to their online complaints form.

Privacy Policy | Civil Enforcement (ce-service.co.uk)

Submit a Complaint - Civil Enforcement (ce-service.co.uk)

It is possible they ignored your complain because it was attached to an appeal instead of using their published complaints process. 

I suggest you submit the initial complaint again using the online form, and make a separate complaint about the lack of PoPLA code, assuming you are outside the BPA's suggest timeline for responding to appeals, which I think may be 35 days. I would tell them to respond within 7 days, otherwise you will raise a complaint with the BPA.

Did you complain to the landowner and your MP? That is always Plan A, and it is never too late to do so.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up before.

fisherjim

What were you complaining about?

Did you complain on the on line appeal rather than appeal?

With a NTK sent on the 29/11/23 and an incident on the 09/11/23 they were too late to hold the keeper liable.

Tonibee9

Fruitcake said:

The CEL website directs motorists to their complaints policy that details how to make a complaint either by post or online, and includes a link to their online complaints form.

[links]

It is possible they ignored your complain because it was attached to an appeal instead of using their published complaints process. 

I suggest you submit the initial complaint again using the online form, and make a separate complaint about the lack of PoPLA code, assuming you are outside the BPA's suggest timeline for responding to appeals, which I think may be 35 days. I would tell them to respond within 7 days, otherwise you will raise a complaint with the BPA.

Did you complain to the landowner and your MP? That is always Plan A, and it is never too late to do so.

Where did the alleged event occur? It may have cropped up before.

Thank you. The incident is a new controlled parking area in Frimley behind some shops which had previously been free for decades (now 'permit' controlled). I've copied the first paragraph of my letter below, which was sent via the appeals link (I didn't find the complaints form or I would have used it - in fact my belief that there was no way to contact other than the appeal form was included in my letter). Nevertheless, having used the word 'dispute' then I think it should properly be considered an appeal regardless.

I didn't complain to the landowner (who is independent of the shops for which parking is provided) because I wasn't using the shops and the area has been free parking for decades. In my letter I deal with the lack of obvious signage warning of a charge for incorrect parking.

What do you mean by "PoPLA code"? I assume it means that if my appeal to CEL is unsuccessful they'll issue a code in order to complain to PoPLA?

"Thank you for your notice of 29 November 2023, received thirteen days later on 9 December 2023.

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual

agreement and will not be paying the charge. There will be no admissions as to who was driving,

there being no requirement to do so, and no assumptions can be drawn. I complain about the charge,

about the lack of appropriate signage warning drivers of the charge or surveillance operation and of

the coercive way in which, for parking and for appeals, you seek to assume or dictate terms."

Tonibee9

fisherjim said:

What were you complaining about?

Did you complain on the on line appeal rather than appeal?

With a NTK sent on the 29/11/23 and an incident on the 09/11/23 they were too late to hold the keeper liable.

Thank you.

1. What was I complaining about? Basically, unfairness re change of use of the car park which had been free for decades and insufficient signage plus all the info in the template letter.
2. On the on-line appeal form (see my response to Fruitcake).
3. You misread - the incident was 29th November.

fisherjim

1. What was I complaining about? Basically, unfairness re change of use of the car park which had been free for decades

That has no legs at all.

3. You misread - the incident was 29th November.

Did I, that isn't what you stated is it?

"With an incident date of 9/11/23, I received a PCN (NTK) (no windscreen ticket) in the post with an issue date of 29/11/23 (rec'd 9/12/23)".

Coupon-mad

What do you mean by "PoPLA code"? I assume it means that if my appeal to CEL is unsuccessful they'll issue a code in order to complain to PoPLA?

Yes. As explained fully, in the NEWBIES thread.

Just complain and tell them you will report them to the BPA if they fail to cancel or cough up a POPLA Code.

Tonibee9

fisherjim said:

1. What was I complaining about? Basically, unfairness re change of use of the car park which had been free for decades

That has no legs at all.

3. You misread - the incident was 29th November.

Did I, that isn't what you stated is it?

"With an incident date of 9/11/23, I received a PCN (NTK) (no windscreen ticket) in the post with an issue date of 29/11/23 (rec'd 9/12/23)".

1. There were plenty of other things included. I don't particularly want to go into the ins and outs - I'm more concerned with procedure so that I don't shoot myself in the foot and end up with no legs whatsoever for any of my arguments.

2. Apologies, you are correct and the typo is mine - the incident date was actually 24th November. I checked all the dates etc as per MSE advice and everything is OK in that regard.

Tonibee9

Coupon-mad said:

What do you mean by "PoPLA code"? I assume it means that if my appeal to CEL is unsuccessful they'll issue a code in order to complain to PoPLA?

Yes. As explained fully, in the NEWBIES thread.

Just complain and tell them you will report them to the BPA if they fail to cancel or cough up a POPLA Code.

Thank you for the advice. I'll send a complaint as you suggest.

As a newbie who's never had a PCN before (because I'm very careful!) I have to say the newbie's thread is very long and very complicated and obviously I've not found or appreciated that part in spite of reading it several times over. I've read it again this evening and still can't find this bit. I also noted the advice not to start a new thread and that's why I started this thread by letting y'all know I've done my homework and I'm here as a last resort.

Coupon-mad

POPLA is covered in the 3rd post.

The NEWBIES thread is long due to amount of info to cover for different scenarios.

Tonibee9

I see; thank you. I had read all that. The post itself doesn't mention about needing a code or how to get one and since I'm not at the second stage appeal and already overwhelmed with the volume of reading, I didn't go and browse the POPLA website.

For the benefit of others who might be asking the same question, it's a 'verification code' and this is what the POPLA guide to appeals says about it:

"10 digit verification code

You should have received this verification code when you received your rejection notice from the private parking operator. If you haven’t received your code, you can contact the parking operator who will provide one, but only if you appealed within 28 days of receiving your Parking Charge Notice."