Formal Letter of Claim received from QDR Solicitors

Gr1pr

Add the assessment as an exhibit

You can certainly try for your time spent on it, at the current court rate for small claims 

Your WS plus exhibits bundle is emailed to the solicitors and also to your local nominated civil court,  the one named on your court order,  nowhere else , the typical maximum size is 50 pages,  or less

The CNBC washed their hands of it months ago when they transferred the whole case to your local court 

I suggest that you study other very recent witness statement bundles, especially the recommended ones in other recent threads, see what they did,  and how and why

Coupon-mad

A costs assessment isn't an exhibit.

sarin999

The Claimant's Witness Statement and Exhibits have arrived. I've done some speed reading and nothing  groundbreaking on first pass but a few interesting points:

They have provided 2 heavily redacted Service agreements between the landlord and Euro Car Parks over the period. The first is bearly readable with only 7 readable paragraphs out of a 5 page document. The signatures are also redacted. Is this allowed? Seems bizarre to enter a contract into a legal proceeding which I'm not allowed to scrutinise.

The final readable paragraph states "The contract term will run 1 year from signature date; termination of the contract must be in writing to Euro Car Parks Ltd and giving at least 8 weeks notice." . The date of the contract + 1 year is well before I recieved a PCN. Can I argue that there is no supporting contract extension to show they were still managing the Car Park ? The second contract starts some years after so I don't know where the first contract ends.

The Claimant's witness statement states that £100 is for the balance of the PCN and an additional £70 for administrative costs. The Particulars of Claim state that the £100 is a Parking Charge at the £70 is "the original PCN value plus contractual charges incurred in the collection of the debt". They then go onto say they are fair and reasonable and site Beavis. To me the witness statment and POC seem inconsistent. Is that correct? The images of the signs with T&Cs are unreadable and the text provided of the T&Cs don't include any detail on the additional charges. Is this a clear attempt at inventing some random charge and double recovery ? 

Coupon-mad

Yep you are spotting just the right things to note down and raise at the hearing when the Judge says it's your turn to speak.

Good spots!

Read up on and be ready to ask the Judge to look at the Court of Appeal case law of Hancock v Promontoria like I did in this case almost 2 years ago:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6455080/court-report-case-won-on-fairlie-v-fenton-and-hancock-v-promontoria/p1

It wasn't in the Defendant's bundle but anything goes in small claims and CoA judgments are binding on Judges. I just gave him the citation number and name of the case and told him which bit to read and why I was relying on it.

Thanks to @Johnersh for first finding us that binding authority. Google it. Paragraph 80 onwards, or thereabouts, deals with redacted contracts that a party expects a court to construe.

(Fairlie v Fenton is not relevant to you).

Reading that court report might help as well because it shows you how hearings go.  Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and sit and wait for your turn to strike!

sarin999

When it is your turn do you get a chance to go through your witness statement from top to tail? It seems you might not get this opportunity with the claimant's representative arguing about something benign. Would the the Judge have read the Defence\Statement in advance? If I don't have a chance to go through my statement, I would presumeably have to summarise and pickout the salient points?

I read on the news this week it's a good tactic to ask if the Claimant's council has a 'Right of Audience' as they tend to send in contract legal reps who may not be fully qualified. Is that something you would do\advise?

In the posts there is discussion about whether a template defence was relied upon. Is this a bad thing? I have based mine on it to benefit from the legal references and argument but any description on what I saw\did\heard etc was my own.

First timer here. When you refer to a case do you simply say Hancock v Promontoria (Chestnut) Limited [2020] EWCA Civ 907 – Paragraph 80 ?  Would I need to print out the full judgement or excerts for the Judge?  

Coupon-mad

If it's an in-person hearing take a printout of everything with you including their bundle, your bundle and Hancock v Promontoria.  Printing isn't cheap. Ask for all your costs at the end because they have acted unreasonably (do a crib sheet as to why).

If it is a remote hearing then just cite the case & number (your bold) and the Judge can immediately look it up, as 'my' Judge did and he loved it because it's Court of Appeal level!


"When it is your turn do you get a chance to go through your witness statement from top to tail?"

No, that would be a waste of time. The Judge should have read it but take proof that you emailed it to the C and to the local court in case they say "we haven't got a WS from you?" Happens a lot! Then you have to go into your points a lot more. But not 'reading it out'.


"Would the the Judge have read the Defence\Statement in advance?"

Yes that's the theory! Hopefully.


"If I don't have a chance to go through my statement, I would presumably have to summarise and pick out the salient points?"

Yes. Do a crib sheet in advance.


"I read on the news this week it's a good tactic to ask if the Claimant's council has a 'Right of Audience' as they tend to send in contract legal reps who may not be fully qualified. Is that something you would do\advise?"

No we have exhausted that idea and it's not great. I've tried it myself. Most Judges don't like it (and they always have overall discretion to hear anybody) so we don't play that game any more unless a Judge raises it, then you'd play it by ear and say whatever helps your case.

Listen carefully to the Judge as they will give you verbal and visual cues as to what they are interested in. Run with whatever feels like it's working! Often the point you think is going to be your main one turns out not to be the way the hearing actually goes. Be ready to switch between points: run with what the Judge seems to like and don't press a point they clearly don't.

"In the posts there is discussion about whether a template defence was relied upon. Is this a bad thing?"

Not at all!

You are entitled to use reliable free resources and that Template Defence is written by the only consumer representative who has been on the Government Parking Code of Practice Steering Group, providing evidence to Ministers in the MHCLG for five years (i.e. me). We know what we are talking about and this forum has shaped the incoming statutory policy and regulatory Code.

Don't let them diss us!

It's not a valid criticism of your defence to say "it's a internet template". (Errr... and?). One Judge I appeared in front of said to the Claimant "so what?!"

They might moan that it's long but that's because new Judges may not be aware of the regulatory framework coming in soon and that the Impact Assessment in 2023 exposed the 'extortion' of the added "DRA fee".

sarin999

Hancock v Promontoria will finish them off. If I site that case, will the judge likely end the case there as the claimant hasn't demonstrated they have the right to argue this claim? or will it continue and then I keep going...

with a potential clanger.... The first redacted contract provided doesnt delegate\provide authority to legally represent the claimant (second does however). They dont have standing ! 

Coupon-mad

sarin999 said:

Hancock v Promontoria will finish them off. If I site that case, will the judge likely end the case there as the claimant hasn't demonstrated they have the right to argue this claim?  

No. Unlikely. Remember what I warned:

Run with whatever feels like it's working! Often the point you think is going to be your main one turns out not to be the way the hearing actually goes.

Whatever you plan, it will take a slightly different direction.  That's my experience but I've only done maybe a dozen hearings max.

sarin999

With Hancock v Promontoria there is an emphasis on 'why' the contracts are redacted. Is it my place to ask the Claimants legal rep 'why'? or if I point it out, will the judge do that? 

Coupon-mad

Let the Judge ask any questions.

I just took him to the case off the top of my head when he started telling the C's solicitor that he wasn't happy to see redactions in the landowner contract. I just waited patiently until he turned to me "anything you wish to add, Mrs R?" and I said he should read the Court of Appeal Authority which holds (as a matter of binding case law) that contracts that a court is being asked to construe must not be redacted heavily, or at all.

He then asked for the full case citation and looked it up on the spot.