Landlord wanting to push back move out date (hence more rent)

a_and_k_ftb

Hi MSE forumers. Long time lurker, first time poster.

We're in the process of buying our first house (wahey!) and currently renting via an estate agent. 

Our current fixed term tenancy ended, and we rolled over onto a rolling contract. Rent payments are due on the 5th of the month. 

Seller asked to exchange this coming Friday (2024-02-09), and complete the Friday after (2024-02-16). Asked the current estate agent if we could therefore have our last day of the tenancy and check-out inspection on Monday 2024-02-19, despite this not being our standard tenancy period. 

Estate agent sent the following email in January:

Good afternoon [my name]
 
Thank you for your email and I trust you are keeping well.
 
Your end date for your tenancy is confirmed as Monday 19th February 2024.

At the start of the month, they sent an invoice for the whole of the month from 5th of Feb to 4th of March.

Replied asking for the invoice to reflect the move out date of 19th of Feb and be 15/29 of our current rental amount.

Estate agent replied acknowledging above email, and also saying

"The Landlord has now advised that he wants the end of tenancy to remain within the tenancy rental dates as per your tenancy agreement."

Unsure of my rights, any advice appreciated.

Not going to let it affect the house purchase, but would like to avoid paying half a month's rent. 

Can I reply saying that since I already have confirmation that that is the end date, then that's when we're going to pay rent up to?

Are they within their rights to change this date? 

Robbo66

When serving notice you as the tenant need to give on months notice in line with your tenancy dates unless agreed otherwise with your landlord. Assuming your rent and payment days are the same notice should be served on or before the 5th of the month to expire on the 4th the following. if you move out earlier than the 4th march then that is your choice.

propertyrental

You have agreed an end date for the tenancy with the landlord (via his agent) of 19th Feb. This cannot be changed without both sides agreeing.

However, note that rent is indivisble so rent is due for the full tenancvy period despite the tenany ending on the 19th, unless it was also agreed that rent would be due on a pro trata (ie daily) basis.

Note also that your tenancy periods may, or may not, align with your rent payment dates. What exact date did your fixed term end?

Robbo66 said:

When serving notice you as the tenant need to give one? months notice in line with your tenancy dates unless agreed otherwise with your landlord. Assuming your rent and payment days are the same notice should be served on or before the 5th of the month to expire on the 4th the following. if you move out earlier than the 4th march then that is your choice.

Notice by the tenant in a contractual perioodic tenancy is as defined in the contract. If the contract is silent, or it is a statutory perioodic tenancy, then yes - one month's notice. In this case, we have no information as to whether this is a contractual or statutory periodic.

However that is irrelevant here since the tenant and landlord have already mutually agreed (via the LL's agent) to end the tenancy on the 19th.

Sadly as far as we know, no agreement was reached regarding pro rata rent, so the full month's rent is due.

a_and_k_ftb

Thank you so much for the advice! Yes, I think no agreement was reached on the pro rata of rent on a daily basis, unfortunately. Merely the end of the tenancy agreement.

The notice period was one month in the contract, and I gave one month. 

Didn't sign a new contract after fixed term tenancy ended. Fixed term ended a long time ago. October 4th 2022 (I think they just forgot about us until now). So presume this is statutory periodic tenancy. 

Rental period and rent payments line up, so that tenancy period is 5th to the 4th, and rent is due on the 4th.

Tempted to suggest we donate the difference to Shelter or another charity. Have accepted my fate, however. 

SDLT_Geek

The advice on here generally (for very good reasons) is not to give notice to end your tenancy until contracts have been exchanged on your purchase.

Fingers crossed for you that your purchase goes through as expected!

a_and_k_ftb

Indeed, have been catching up on the forums now and noticed. Saw the property today with the estate agent to make sure everything is as it should be. Due to exchange on Friday, and everything looks to be in place so far, so fingers crossed, but yes you never know. 

Yorkie1

If you are moving out of rented into a purchased property, you are blessed with the opportunity to have some overlap in properties, during which you can do some cleaning and decorating in the new place, get items delivered there, move and then clean the old property (to get your deposit back). Not to be sniffed at!

Mr.Generous

Yorkie1 said:

If you are moving out of rented into a purchased property, you are blessed with the opportunity to have some overlap in properties, during which you can do some cleaning and decorating in the new place, get items delivered there, move and then clean the old property (to get your deposit back). Not to be sniffed at!

And not have to shift everything in one go. Tenants moving out frequently sleep in the property on the first night or two of getting the keys to the new place. Sometimes longer if they decorate the new home prior to moving in.

I do however always accept pro rata rent for a check out, many pay a few extra days to ease the moving day stress.

Schwarzwald

a_and_k_ftb said:

Tempted to suggest we donate the difference to Shelter or another charity. Have accepted my fate, however. 

why?
you make it sound as if the LL is in the wrong to collect the rent of the second half of the month.
it is unlikely the LL has another tenant lined up on the day to move in.

would skip this suggestions, not helpful. but if you feel strongly to donate to shelter, why dont you do it out of your own pocket? just a suggestion.

pinkshoes

a_and_k_ftb said:

Hi MSE forumers. Long time lurker, first time poster.

We're in the process of buying our first house (wahey!) and currently renting via an estate agent. 

Our current fixed term tenancy ended, and we rolled over onto a rolling contract. Rent payments are due on the 5th of the month. 

Seller asked to exchange this coming Friday (2024-02-09), and complete the Friday after (2024-02-16). Asked the current estate agent if we could therefore have our last day of the tenancy and check-out inspection on Monday 2024-02-19, despite this not being our standard tenancy period. 

Estate agent sent the following email in January:

Good afternoon [my name]
 
Thank you for your email and I trust you are keeping well.
 
Your end date for your tenancy is confirmed as Monday 19th February 2024.

At the start of the month, they sent an invoice for the whole of the month from 5th of Feb to 4th of March.

Replied asking for the invoice to reflect the move out date of 19th of Feb and be 15/29 of our current rental amount.

Estate agent replied acknowledging above email, and also saying

"The Landlord has now advised that he wants the end of tenancy to remain within the tenancy rental dates as per your tenancy agreement."

Unsure of my rights, any advice appreciated.

Not going to let it affect the house purchase, but would like to avoid paying half a month's rent. 

Can I reply saying that since I already have confirmation that that is the end date, then that's when we're going to pay rent up to?

Are they within their rights to change this date? 

I'm going against the others here.

If that is the EXACT wording from the letting agent, then it reads to me that the 19th Feb 2024 had indeed been agreed as your 1 months notice, but the LL has changed his mind and now wants it to remain to the end of the tenancy. 

I would also have been expecting to only pay rent until the 19th Feb. Lots of LLs like this, especially if they have another tenant who wants to move in. 

I would phone the agent and speak to them and make it clear that the 19th had been agreed, and if you'd have known the landlord wanted to end on a rent date, then you would have delayed exchange of contracts. 

If the LL won't budge, then I'd insist on having the property up to the 4th March and use the over-lap to do some decorating on the new place. 

doodling

Hi,

pinkshoes said:

a_and_k_ftb said:

Hi MSE forumers. Long time lurker, first time poster.

We're in the process of buying our first house (wahey!) and currently renting via an estate agent. 

Our current fixed term tenancy ended, and we rolled over onto a rolling contract. Rent payments are due on the 5th of the month. 

Seller asked to exchange this coming Friday (2024-02-09), and complete the Friday after (2024-02-16). Asked the current estate agent if we could therefore have our last day of the tenancy and check-out inspection on Monday 2024-02-19, despite this not being our standard tenancy period. 

Estate agent sent the following email in January:

Good afternoon [my name]
 
Thank you for your email and I trust you are keeping well.
 
Your end date for your tenancy is confirmed as Monday 19th February 2024.

At the start of the month, they sent an invoice for the whole of the month from 5th of Feb to 4th of March.

Replied asking for the invoice to reflect the move out date of 19th of Feb and be 15/29 of our current rental amount.

Estate agent replied acknowledging above email, and also saying

"The Landlord has now advised that he wants the end of tenancy to remain within the tenancy rental dates as per your tenancy agreement."

Unsure of my rights, any advice appreciated.

Not going to let it affect the house purchase, but would like to avoid paying half a month's rent. 

Can I reply saying that since I already have confirmation that that is the end date, then that's when we're going to pay rent up to?

Are they within their rights to change this date? 

I'm going against the others here.

If that is the EXACT wording from the letting agent, then it reads to me that the 19th Feb 2024 had indeed been agreed as your 1 months notice, but the LL has changed his mind and now wants it to remain to the end of the tenancy. 

I agree with this, the landlord is attempting to change their mind and reject the tenants notice when they (their agent) has already accepted it.  They can't do that, the tenancy will end on Monday 19th (unless mutually agreed otherwise).

I would also have been expecting to only pay rent until the 19th Feb. Lots of LLs like this, especially if they have another tenant who wants to move in. 

That doesn't follow on.  All that has been agreed is the date when the tenancy ends, the landlord hasn't agreed to pro-rata the rent, if they did then they would have said.

I would phone the agent and speak to them and make it clear that the 19th had been agreed, and if you'd have known the landlord wanted to end on a rent date, then you would have delayed exchange of contracts.

If the LL won't budge, then I'd insist on having the property up to the 4th March and use the over-lap to do some decorating on the new place.   

Whilst it is open to both the landlord and tenant to mutually change the agreement, they both need to agree the new one.  What benefit does the landlord get from refunding some of the rent?

Having said that, it doesn't do any harm to play the whole "I didn't understand what I was agreeing to" card but I think the upshot of that will be that the landlord would happily agree a revised tenancy end date which matches the rental period, not the money back the OP is hoping for.