We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum. This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are - or become - political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

Do I need planning? Has anyone used Studio Charrette

Hi,

Im looking to replace my porch which is literally falling down. The porch is currently 4sq m, but Id like to increase the floor area to about 6sq m. 

Ive been on the Planning Portal, which recommends a company called Studio Charrette. They said they will do a Planning Appraisal for me. 

Has anyone used them? Or perhaps I should just apply for Planning Permission direct?

Im replacing a tin roof shack thats literally falling down, with something thats much more in-keeping with the house. Yes, Ill be increasing the floor area by 2 sq m, but do you think this is Permitted Development?

I will be selling the house in a few years time, so I dont want this to be a sticking point when selling, or have to apply for retrospective planning.

Thanks



«1

Comments

  • McKneff
    McKneff Posts: 38,857 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Are your measurements taken from the inside of the porch area. 

    You are likely to need planning permission for 
    6 square metres. 

    We had to when we did ours
    make the most of it, we are only here for the weekend.
    and we will never, ever return.
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 8,681 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    dllive said:


    Im looking to replace my porch which is literally falling down. The porch is currently 4sq m, but Id like to increase the floor area to about 6sq m. 

    ...

    Im replacing a tin roof shack thats literally falling down, with something thats much more in-keeping with the house. Yes, Ill be increasing the floor area by 2 sq m, but do you think this is Permitted Development?


    No.  The plan area limit on porches is 3sqm, so your 4sqm one already exceeds the allowance.  You can't use the 3sqm PD as an addition to an existing porch.

    Do you know if the existing porch had planning consent?

    The planning process for something like a porch or small extension isn't that difficult.  You probably don't need a consultant to help you, so long as you can get the plans drawn up.
  • dllive
    dllive Posts: 1,275 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Section62 said:
    dllive said:


    Im looking to replace my porch which is literally falling down. The porch is currently 4sq m, but Id like to increase the floor area to about 6sq m. 

    ...

    Im replacing a tin roof shack thats literally falling down, with something thats much more in-keeping with the house. Yes, Ill be increasing the floor area by 2 sq m, but do you think this is Permitted Development?


    No.  The plan area limit on porches is 3sqm, so your 4sqm one already exceeds the allowance.  You can't use the 3sqm PD as an addition to an existing porch.

    Do you know if the existing porch had planning consent?

    The planning process for something like a porch or small extension isn't that difficult.  You probably don't need a consultant to help you, so long as you can get the plans drawn up.
    I dont know if the existing porch had planning consent. I think it was built in the mid 1990s. (Ive owned the house for 5 years).

    The chap I spoke to at the consultants said Id likely not need permission. But I dont know if thats because he wants me to use his services.

    Is the simple fact that it is going to be bigger than 3sqm - even by just a couple of metres  - enough for it to need planning permission? Even though its replacing something that looks awful and is falling down with something that is much more in-keeping with the house? If so, then I suspect the consultant is being disingenuous. 

    As you say, I can Photoshop some plans detailing dimensions, materials used etc. But I was hoping that - for the sake of £100 to get a Planning Consultant to give a definitive "This can be done under PD" or "This cant be done under PD". But by what you say - by virtue of the slightly increased floor print - it cant be done under PD?



  • dllive
    dllive Posts: 1,275 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    And of course, I dont want to wait 16 weeks for a result. I suppose I could apply for retrospective planning, but then I run the chance of not getting it, and worst case, have to demolish it all! How likely this would be I have no idea. As I say, its only going to enhance the visual appeal of the property, albeit at a very slightly  enlarged footprint.
  • FreeBear
    FreeBear Posts: 17,271 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    dllive said: The chap I spoke to at the consultants said Id likely not need permission. But I dont know if thats because he wants me to use his services.

    Is the simple fact that it is going to be bigger than 3sqm - even by just a couple of metres  - enough for it to need planning permission? Even though its replacing something that looks awful and is falling down with something that is much more in-keeping with the house? If so, then I suspect the consultant is being disingenuous.
    The existing porch is 4m² which you intend to demolish - That would (generally) need planning permission. You then intend to rebuild the porch with a 6m² footprint. That is twice the area for permitted development, so you will need to apply for planning permission.
    You could go ahead and rebuild the porch without the appropriate permissions in place, but it would be you the council pursue, not the "consultant". Even if the council doesn't spot the new porch and initiate enforcement action within the allotted time limits, solicitors will pick up on it when you come to sell. Some potential buyers may even pull out if the right paperwork is not in place. For the sake of saving a few hundred pounds, it isn't really worth it.

    Her courage will change the world.

    Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.
  • stuart45
    stuart45 Posts: 4,586 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    When building a front porch a lot of people seem to take an interest in it and come up and talk about it. Build an extension at the back and nobody seems to notice. 
    Unless it's well out of the way, there's a fair chance when building a large porch of the council finding out.
  • dllive
    dllive Posts: 1,275 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Thanks. Yes, Id rather get all the paperwork in order beforehand as I will be look to sell in a few years. I was just hoping that the Consultant would give me a definitive Yes/No to PD. But it seems on this thread that the answer is a definitive "No, it wont be PD". This is helpful thanks. I wont pay the consultant for his planning appraisal (his initial thoughts were that it was PD!) and I will come up with the relevant plan etc myself and submit to Planning. 
  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 8,681 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    dllive said:
    Section62 said:

    Is the simple fact that it is going to be bigger than 3sqm - even by just a couple of metres  - enough for it to need planning permission? Even though its replacing something that looks awful and is falling down with something that is much more in-keeping with the house? If so, then I suspect the consultant is being disingenuous. 

    Yes.  Planning is a rules based system.  The rule is that to be permitted development various criteria need to be met, including that "the ground area (measured externally) of the structure would [not] exceed 3 square metres".

    If the ground area of the porch exceeds 3 square metres (in theory even by the smallest amount) then it isn't permitted development.

    Replacing something that looks awful and is falling down, and being more in-keeping with the house, are potential considerations when the council considers the application, but in themselves don't allow the application process to be bypassed.

    Also the appearance of a structure and a wish to make it more 'in-keeping' don't always count for much when you apply for planning consent.  It is fairly common for people to believe that their development proposal which is more 'in-keeping' should make it a done deal to get planning consent, but this isn't how the system works.  There are other factors - such as massing and proportion - that will probably carry more weight when considering a porch application (technically an 'extension').

    The only reason I can think of why the planning consultant said it would be PD is if the "porch" is on the side or rear of the property and building a larger structure would be acceptable under the extension PD rules.  The rules for porches are very specific, because generally porches are wanted on the front of a property and here they have the greatest impact on the streetscene.

    However, a porch could also be on the side(s) or rear of the property... can you clarify where yours is because that may make all the difference.
  • dllive
    dllive Posts: 1,275 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Thanks so much for details post @Section62 .

    It seems Ive inadvertently missed out some important detail! (apologies). The new porch is to be a side porch.

    Heres what it currently looks like






    And heres my photoshop mockup of what I would like to replace it with:





  • Section62
    Section62 Posts: 8,681 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    dllive said:

    It seems Ive inadvertently missed out some important detail! (apologies). The new porch is to be a side porch.

    In which case you need to look at PD for an extension - in effect the special class for porches is to potentially allow them in positions where an extension would never be PD.  But if what you want to do would be PD as an extension then you wouldn't be limited to 3sqm.

    However, you've got a lot of glass in your mockup, so you might run into difficulties with building regulations (in terms of thermal efficiency) if it is treated as an extension as part of the habitable area of the house.  You are in a bit of a grey area between 'porch'/'conservatory'/'extension' - it might be a good idea to have a conversation with an architect about the best way forward as the shape of the increased space may not be the most useful.

    On a detailed point - you've got the end wall of the porch right next to and touching the side/corner of the chimney.  That will make it quite difficult to achieve a weather/damp proof connection between the porch and the existing structure.  Either keeping a gap (less than ideal, but like the present arrangement) or else making the porch longer and higher to make that little triangular area of tiles internal to the porch, would make the roof less complicated to do and more likely to be weather/damp proof.

    Also check you have full PD rights - and there is no limitation due to conservation areas/listed buildings/Article 4 directions.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 348.3K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 452.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 240.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 617.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 175.6K Life & Family
  • 254.1K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.