Leaseholder wanting FTTP

Irratus_Rusticus

After excellent advice on this forum and a lot of research, I decided to contact Plusnet and explain that I am a leaseholder, so Openreach will need wayleave consent from the freeholder to run  fibre to my block, attach a box to the wall, and drill the block wall etc. I explained that the Openreach 'Apartment Wayleave form' needed a reference # I didn't have and couldn't find how to get, and didn't give me fields to enter my address, just the freeholdr's details.

Plusnet advised I should simply sign up for the product I wanted and Openreach would come and have a look outside without needing me present and would know what was needed next. So I agreed to buy my first FTTP.

Being the pedantic type, I emailed Plusnet to confirm on record what I'd told them: that I didn't want to breach the lease and it was not for me to seek a wayleave agreement etc.

Along came a text from OR telling me they would turn up and didn't need me present as they would excavate to fit the fibre cable to my building and attach a box, and that I needed 'landlord consent' first.

My options were to agree or type ACCESS. I typed ACCESS. This seemed to dissuade them from getting me into trouble.

I also texted back to ask what happened to the wayleave process that I'd discussed with Plusnet and read on OR's website

OR texted to ask if I wished to discuss 'permissions'. I replied yes. I await developments.

Are there any leaseholders who have successfully navigated this minefield? I am old, so it might be me. 

Cloth_of_Gold

Irratus_Rusticus said:

After excellent advice on this forum and a lot of research, I decided to contact Plusnet and explain that I am a leaseholder, so Openreach will need wayleave consent from the freeholder to run  fibre to my block, attach a box to the wall, and drill the block wall etc. I explained that the Openreach 'Apartment Wayleave form' needed a reference # I didn't have and couldn't find how to get, and didn't give me fields to enter my address, just the freeholdr's details.

Plusnet advised I should simply sign up for the product I wanted and Openreach would come and have a look outside without needing me present and would know what was needed next. So I agreed to buy my first FTTP.

Being the pedantic type, I emailed Plusnet to confirm on record what I'd told them: that I didn't want to breach the lease and it was not for me to seek a wayleave agreement etc.

Along came a text from OR telling me they would turn up and didn't need me present as they would excavate to fit the fibre cable to my building and attach a box, and that I needed 'landlord consent' first.

My options were to agree or type ACCESS. I typed ACCESS. This seemed to dissuade them from getting me into trouble.

I also texted back to ask what happened to the wayleave process that I'd discussed with Plusnet and read on OR's website

OR texted to ask if I wished to discuss 'permissions'. I replied yes. I await developments.

Are there any leaseholders who have successfully navigated this minefield? I am old, so it might be me. 

Do you have a managing agent? If so, I would ask them to liaise between  BT and the freeholder.

Irratus_Rusticus

Thanks for response. Two issues re approaching agent. Our agent works for our RTM company, not the freeholder and advises wayleave consents are not an RTM function, which I fully agree. Even if an agent is the freeholder's agent, more likely to ask for a fee etc for consent, which is not involved with fibre wayleave consents. Its the network installer who seeks the wayleave agreement.

I've had interesting update. Instead of standing guard outside in case Openreach van turns up with shovels and drills, rang Plusnet to confirm they'd received my email replies to Plusnet support and heard back from Openreach.

Apparently Plusnet support emails do not allow replying. Moving on, Plusnet advised me that Openreach is a "separate company" (who knew) with its own policies, and Plusnet merely raises the order. I should not have been reassured yesterday no work would go ahead without the proper consents. Told Plusnet knows little about wayleaves or what Openreach advise on its website about them. Advised me to take it up with Openreach.

You cannot talk to Openreach. 

Cancelled the FTTP order. Plusnet agreed and apologised. Happy with that as life is too short. 

Still begs OP question. How does a leaseholder order FTTP and be reassured Openreach will do no work without the needed wayleave fromj the freeholder? Still no idea where/how flat owner gets the needed reference number to fill in Openreach's "Apartment Wayleave Form".

It must be me.

iniltous

https://www.openreach.com/forms/apartment-wayleave-form

The first part of this formwize 

Please fill in this form if we've contacted you to let you know that you can get an upgrade to gigabit 

Presumably you haven’t been contacted by Openreach yourself , letting you know your building is under consideration and with the necessary approvals OR would be interested in making FTTP available in that building, no doubt in that scenario, OR would have supplied a reference number you need to complete the form , you are attempting to fill in a form when you haven’t been contacted by Openreach, you have simply ‘noticed’ that FTTP is available.

As stated on your other post , your address has ( rightly or wrongly ) been classified by Openreach as a SDU ( single dwelling unit ) not as part of a MDU ( multiple dwelling unit ) in other words OR ‘see’ no difference in supplying service to your address than they would with a traditional house with its own boundary to the footpath,( which is  where the FTTP equipment is located ) and obviously the area to be excavated ( usually the properties front garden ) belongs to the party asking for FTTP , so no third party permission or wayleave is required.

You have started and cancelled the ordering process with PN for a SDU , presumably because of a concern that OR will simply turn up and do work that you are not authorised to allow , being a leaseholder and not the freeholder, some wouldn’t worry about such things , generally it easier to ask forgiveness than asking for permission.

A typical ‘proper’ MDU ( one where OR have designated it a MDU correctly, using the appropriate criteria , which includes having a common entrance  for all apartments , ( the individual units within the MDU don’t have a direct access to the footpath, the individual units front doors are within the body of the building ) are normally excluded from ordering FTTP , even when neighbouring SDU ( houses ) can order FTTP , I suspect your ability to order is because of this potential error,  calling your individual ‘unit’ a SDU , and not ( as you  suggest it should be ) an integral part of a MDU .

OR would , normally much later on after the general area is upgraded to FTTP , either contact the building owner/management independently about block wiring the building , or contact the individual apartment owners or occupants by letter  ( quoting the reference number you need )   and if sufficient responses are received, then approach the building owner ( freeholder, managing agent or whatever )  , with a proposal to deliver FTTP services , obviously the first approach could be pointless if no occupants are interested in FTTP , the second approach, OR ‘know’ there is a demand for FTTP before they spend money on an internal survey , providing the internal optical cabling etc.

Irratus_Rusticus

Thank you again for informed response. What you describe about a letter from Openreach makes sense. I always like things to make sense! The shame is that Openreach's website FAQs about obstaining wayleaves asks: "I'm the resident and want fibre installed in the premises. What do I need to do?" Answer: "We need your help to liase with the landlord. To get the ball rolling you can use this form..." The form does say as you highlight, and to get the ball rolling I took to mean my successful availability check with them was what they meant. I'm easily confused. Doesn't explain Plusnet, mind.

I agree many would just have fibre installed and pay for a breach if it came to it. As I said on other thread, our freeholder seems to have doffed his cap to a network installer of his own, and they will carry out surveys. More likely to notice little grey boxes they didn't fit.

On the other hand I think I have learnt that even if a freeholder does engage a network installer, other providers still have the right to require access? Not that I would bet my lunch on having understood that correctly either.

Ironically, neghbour tells me today Cityfibre turned up yesterday asking for another flat. Seems FTTP in our freehold will become a lot clearer in due course one way or another. I'm sticking with FTTC until it does...