Question about self charging hybrids

Martin_the_Unjust

I’m thinking our next car will be a self charging hybrid but I have a couple of questions for any owners out there;

What mpg do you get on longer journeys compared to the claimed mpg?

How far will it go on a full tank of fuel?

Thanks in advance

hollie.weimeraner

Too many variables (like asking what mpg does everyone get without specifying a make and model)  but I used to have a 1.8 Toyota Auris Tourer that used to get 50mpg around Sheffield and up to mid 60's on a long journey.

oldernonethewiser

Depends on the car, the size of the battery and the size of the fuel tank and the way you drive.

Friend has such a car.  Quoted figure is approx 52mpg but they generally get 55mpg. This is for in town driving.

Shedman

What type of car do you want - hatchback, estate or SUV?  You'll get quite a difference in MPG between types due to weight, aerodynamics, type of gear mechanism (eg CVT as in Toyota which seem best on MPG but these have a different 'sound' or more normal auto), etc.  

Looking into this myself at moment - I'm seeing reports of SUVs (wife wants to sit higher .....🙄) such as Kia Sportage HEV (and Hyundai Tucson equiv) getting around 40-45mpg compared to claimed 44-49, whereas say estates such Toyota Corolla Sports Tourer seems to be 55-60 mpg (I used to have a Prius hatch a few years ago and got 55+).  Whether the fuel saving on a Hybrid justifies the often considerable premium is another question I'm pondering.  By the way from what I've read Mild hybrids (MHEV) rather full Hybrids (HEV) really don't seem to add much in terms of consumption for extra cost.

What came as a surprise to me is that most (all?) new petrol cars have a particulate filter. One reason for me to swap from a diesel is the DPF and doing more short journeys these days. There seems to be a number of reports of non hybrid petrol cars (esp Sportage/Tucson) getting PPF regen warnings after only a few thousand miles and owners being told its because they do too many short journeys (which is why they chose a petrol engine in the first place!). Issue doesn't seem affect full Hybrids (but might be it just takes longer to occur ?).  

Have a look at Honest John Real MPG as that might help https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/real-mpg/.   Its a nightmare trying to decide especially coming from a 56mpg diesel, zero VED and cheap group 12 insurance 😅

Veteransaver

Self charging hybrid is just a meaningless marketing word. It doesn't mean anything other than it charges its very small battery by running a petrol engine, which is actually very inefficient.
The car uses a tiny battery to either crawl.at.very.low speed for a few hundred yards or give a small boost to acceleration.
You get slightly better fuel economy than an equivalent non hybrid petrol car.
A mild hybrid offers even more marginal fuel efficiency gains.

Herzlos

Self charging hybrid will attempt to capture energy from braking to charge a small battery, that when full may provide up to about 1 mile of battery range. You'll see an increase in efficiency if you do a lot of stop/start driving (trying to cross a city centre), but none on a long steady drive (motorway).

It seems to be mostly a tax/emissions thing.

LeafGreen

Veteransaver said:

Self charging hybrid is just a meaningless marketing word. It doesn't mean anything other than it charges its very small battery by running a petrol engine, which is actually very inefficient.
The car uses a tiny battery to either crawl.at.very.low speed for a few hundred yards or give a small boost to acceleration.
You get slightly better fuel economy than an equivalent non hybrid petrol car.
A mild hybrid offers even more marginal fuel efficiency gains.

How is it meaningless?  It distinguishes it from plug-in and conventional full petrol/diesel.  What term would you suggest describes it better?  

They can also use energy recovery from braking to charge the battery (although I guess that isn't a huge amount)

Goudy

Modern HEV's are getting more efficient but as already stated, MPG depends on many variables.

I know someone that has managed to hit the sweet spot in their 2016 Yaris hybrid.
Mixed commute, some A40 and city driving mainly and has managed over 150,000 miles at an average of 84mpg.
She states it dips a bit over winter but she's left the trip running since new, so 84 mpg is a good reflection overall.

The later Yaris and Yaris Cross have a slightly bigger battery and a different engine and updated gearbox (and I presume different programming)
I'm hearing they get a little better mpg around town/city.

Modern Toyotas now use a direct EV gear for low speed driving, so will always run on electric at low speeds (though may run the engine to generate electricity). So tend to run more than the old versions on electric only.


As for the petrol particulate filters (PPF's), these are a completely different kettle of fish then the diesel versions (DPF's).

A DPF are active, they introduce a fuel to the filter (diesel injected on a non compression stroke) and try and burn the large particles of soot to smaller particles of ash.

There's a host of things that can go wrong, the main problem is soot needs something close to 600c to oxidise.
Anything less makes the process slower so it doesn't always complete in that particular drive cycle.
Compound that with short trips, with cold engines (which make more soot) and the problems soon snowball badly/expensively.

PPF's don't work in the same way, they are passive.
They trap soot from the engine in a similar way but they burn that soot naturally on the over run.

Every time the driver takes their foot off the accelerator on any petrol engine, a massive heat front is generated in the exhaust, it's this that is used to burn the soot and as it's really really hot, it's more than hot enough to cremate any soot to ash in there.

Petrol's don't produce the same levels of soot as a diesel to start with and the filter passively regenerates hundreds if not thousands of times more often than a DPF would.

This means they are generally far more reliable than DPFs but there have been a few reports of problems with certain manufacturers.
Some of these I believe have been caused by other engine problems, like engines running far too rich.

Just like DPF's, there is only a finite amount of space inside a filter and eventually ash will fill them up, it's just a normal part of the procedure. 

daveyjp

Circa 50 mpg should be possible.  That's what I've seen on the Toyota hybrids I've been in and driven,  a friend had a CHR which did that figure.

The one issue with longer trips is fuel tank size.  Hybrids may have a relatively small tank so range could be lower than you are used to.

Dave_5150

My previous hybrids both returned 50+ mpg (Lexus / Toyota). Distance on a tank depend on the size of the fuel tank.

prettyandfluffy

I have a new generation Honda Jazz sport hybrid 1.5L , previously had a 2013 Honda Jazz hybrid 1.1L.  The previous one was a bit gutless - hybrid cars are heavier.  The new one has 3 driving modes, Sport/Normal/Economy.  Using those as appropriate I can get 59.3 mpg and it's a lot more punchy to drive.  Tank holds 40 litres, you can do the maths.  My OH has a Honda CR-V hybrid and gets around 55 mpg but it has a much bigger fuel tank.

ETA Up to 20 mph you can drive mine entirely off the battery.