DCB Legal - question on SAR

cyberbob0997

Hi All

I have read as much of the forum as I can so sorry if I've failed to register any simple instructions. None of this is special from what I can see, I just have a question if anyone could help.

Background (probably not necessary but just in case, as there is some comms history with DCB):

I/we stopped at a RoadChef services in 2021 and apparently overstayed. We missed the PCN and therefore appeal period due to being (clears throat) "without fixed abode" for a period.

In August last year we heard from DCB Limited on behalf of CP Plus who wanted £170 (as usual). 

I did read the forums here but my other half thought it would be less stressful to settle. I did explain what I had read here, but we had a lot on our plate at the time so I agreed to email them, mention that we'd missed the PCN and ask if we could pay in instalments, the unsurprising response from DCB Limited was simply, cough up.

I decided to wait and see what happened next. 

An LOC from DCB Legal has now arrived in the same format as all those shared on the forum recently. I intend to defend if the claim comes through.  

Question is only - is an SAR still relevant/useful at this stage? Obviously I don't have the PCN, pictures, times etc.

The reason I ask is that section 2 of the newbie sticky mentions sending a firm rebuttal but doesn't mention making an SAR at LOC stage, if I have read it correctly, but forum helpers in more recent threads e.g. https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6432246/dcb-legal-letter-of-claim/p2 have instructed it.

Thanks in advance

Fruitcake

The new advice is not to send an SAR until after a claim has arrived. If the PoC on the claim form are inadequate, then the CEL v Chan case can be used as part of the defence. What you don't want to do is tip the claimant's hand by asking for an SAR, the results of which might prevent the use of the Chan case.

cyberbob0997

Thank you Fruitcake, I will look into that case.

Coupon-mad

cyberbob0997 said:

I agreed to email them, mention that we'd missed the PCN and ask if we could pay in instalments, the unsurprising response from DCB Limited was simply, cough up.

No SAR.

Please show us that email exchange. Cover email addresses, PCN refs and all names/data.  Interesting that no payment plan was offered and I would like to see that. Useful evidence that you OFFERED a payment plan and they refused.

DON'T free type it, or it's just hearsay.

Please can we see the actual emails between you & DCB, redacted.  Screenshots with black redactions should do it.

In your reply to the LBC you can include the fact that the BPA CoP now says that a fresh PCN must be sent, when it is apparent that the PCN was not received.  Tell DCB Legal that you'll complain to the BPA, if CP Plus fail to adhere to the BPA CoP clause (Feb 2024 Code) and pause debt recovery for service of the PCN at the original rate and with appeal offered.

cyberbob0997

Coupon-mad said:

cyberbob0997 said:

I agreed to email them, mention that we'd missed the PCN and ask if we could pay in instalments, the unsurprising response from DCB Limited was simply, cough up.

No SAR.

Please show us that email exchange. Cover email addresses, PCN refs and all names/data.  Interesting that no payment plan was offered and I would like to see that. Useful evidence that you OFFERED a payment plan and they refused.

DON'T free type it, or it's just hearsay.

Please can we see the actual emails between you & DCB, redacted.  Screenshots with black redactions should do it.

In your reply to the LBC you can include the fact that the BPA CoP now says that a fresh PCN must be sent, when it is apparent that the PCN was not received.  Tell DCB Legal that you'll complain to the BPA, if CP Plus fail to adhere to the BPA CoP clause (Feb 2024 Code) and pause debt recovery for service of the PCN at the original rate and with appeal offered.

Hi Coupon-mad, thanks so much for the reply & advice - sorry I missed your post

I didn't do so well with the black boxes so I copied and pasted and obscured the relevant bits, hope this works

No awareness of what is on the PCN so far,

-------

Dear XXXXXX XXXXXXXX,

We write further to your recent correspondence.

We are instructed by our client to recover the outstanding balance in relation to the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued to you.

Please note, the timeframe in which to appeal the PCN expired prior to our instruction. You were given the opportunity to lodge an appeal when the initial Notice was issued to you.

As the person named by our client, you remain liable for the outstanding balance.

You can pay easily by using Scan to Pay, simply scan the QR code located on our letters with your phone and pay by card. You can also pay by card on the secure payment page on the website 24 hours a day www.dcbltd.com/pay-online/.

Alternatively, use our 24/7 Payment line: 01302 897022— Office number: 0203 434 0432 Office opening hours: Monday—Friday 8am—5pm.

Bank Transfer

Sort Code: 20-24-09

Account Number: XXXXXXXX

Please quote your DCBL reference number as the payment reference.

Please note, should the balance remain unpaid, it would be the decision of our client on how they choose to proceed.

Kind Regards,

XXXXX XXXXXX

 -------------------------------------------------------------

From: XXXXXX XXXXXXXX <XXXXXX@XXXXXXXX.com>

Sent: Thursday, September X, 202X XXXXX PM

To: Collections <collections@dcbltd.com>

Subject: Reference number XXXXXXXXXX

 

XXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXXX

XXXXXXX

Reference number XXXXXX

Parking contravention XXXX/202X Roadchef XXXXXXX

Hi DCBL,

I have received notice of debt recovery for the above unpaid parking charge. I was not aware of this parking charge. I would like to request if you would be amenable to me paying the original parking charge amount. I am currently in financial difficulties due to financial dependents through illness and would propose to pay this in 3 instalments. My priority bills are up to date. If so, can you let me know what the amount was and how to make the payments.

XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX

-----------------------------------------------------

Coupon-mad

Don't offer money again. Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6507082/dcb-legal-civil-enforcement-ltd-thwarted

cyberbob0997

Coupon-mad said:

Don't offer money again. Read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6507082/dcb-legal-civil-enforcement-ltd-thwarted

Wow..  😂 

Thanks for the link. I will keep you updated, if that's OK.

cyberbob0997

OK, I emailed them 11 days before the 30 day deadline, using the template from Newbies plus Coupon-mad's very helpful suggestions above. 

I thought I'd done a pretty good job with the email but one omission on my part, I signed off with just my first name. I guess I was thinking they are the same firm as who I'd emailed previously because they are based at the same address, forgetting that they aren't, being a solicitors firm as opposed to DC Bailiffs who sent the first letter and email above.

1 day after the 30-day period (which was a couple of days ago) I received an email back saying they would not discuss it over email unless I confirmed my full name. I suspect this is to try and kick it over the 30 day period, if so and I lose ground as a result that's my fault but would anyone have any thoughts on this?  

I haven't responded yet

Coupon-mad

Respond but stop starting letters with 'Hi' - you do know the proper salutation and sign off for a solicitor?

cyberbob0997

Thank you, I will.

Apparently it's "Dear Sirs" but I read elsewhere this can be outdated, so I put "Dear DCB Legal" to the solicitor.  Guessing I should have stuck with Sirs as per the template. Sign off was "yours faithfully" as per template

cyberbob0997

OK, here is my email and what I got back (I cut out the emails in between in regards to what my name is). 

They appear to reject to offer the chance to pay the original ticket price or appeal.

It looks to me that they have added 1 hour on to the time to make it look more credible. I don't know if that's even possible - the argument would be it comes direct from the camera so cannot be messed with? Without going into areas that might weaken my intended defence, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have spent that number of hours there. We did drive on to Sainsburys so I am trying to find if I can get the relevant debit card transaction times from the bank. 

Don't know if this might be useful but the letter was addressed to the building I lived in, not the flat I lived in (there were 35 flats) presumably though it would have been the same as on DVLA.

Any thoughts or suggestions very much appreciated.

PCN now supplied is here: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/wqvs4u60ara7hrckkdd37/cp-nexus-ticket-pcn-backup-copy-redacted-2.png?rlkey=jlozdxx7kqgjtbbas068if61z&dl=0

--------------

From: XXXXXXXX

Sent: 19 February 2024 23:28

To: info@dcblegal.co.uk

Subject: LETTER OF CLAIM REF XXXXXXXXX

Dear DCB Legal,

Your Ref. XXXXXXXXXXX

Proposed Legal Proceedings

Claimant: CP Plus T/a Groupnexus

I refer to your your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:

X XXXXX Street

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

XXXXXXXX

XXX XXX

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the government has referred to as "extorting money from motorists". I don't require further commentary on this.

It was made clear to your firm on 12/09/2023 that I have not had sight of the original PCN. As I would hope you are aware, the British Parking Association (BPA) Approved Operator Code of Practice (CoP) requires that a fresh PCN be sent where it is apparent that the PCN has not been received.

If CP Plus fail to adhere to the relevant BPA CoP clause (February 2024 Code) and pause debt recovery for service of the PCN at the original rate, and with an appeal offered, I will complain to the BPA.

Additionally I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the additional £70 represents what you dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this net or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXXX

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear XXXXXXXX,

We write in response to your correspondence received in our office dated 07/03/2024. 

We now respond to the same as follows. 

Please find a copy of the Notices issued by our Client attached. For clarity, our Client is a member of the British Parking Association and is fully complaint with their code. The Notices were issued to your last known address held by the DVLA at the time of the contravention.  

In relation to the argument that the amount owed is a hugely exaggerated sum, the amount owed is not more than the original amount of the PCNs plus the recovery fee. The ‘Genuine pre-estimate of loss’ argument was often advanced in parking ticket claims prior to Parking Eye -v- Beavis [2015]. This issue was settled in that case. Furthermore, pursuant to 24.1b of the BPA, “Where a Parking Charge becomes overdue and before Court Proceedings have commenced, a reasonable sum (which covers the cost of recovering debt) may be added for the debt recovery fees. This sum must not exceed £70 unless prior approval from the BPA has been granted”.   

For clarity, the PCN was issued due to breach of contract. Your vehicle was observed on site in breach of the terms and conditions as per the signage. Hence the PCN was issued correctly, and you are liable. 

DCB Legal acknowledges your request for a hold to seek advice. Your file has now been placed on hold for 30 days from the date of this email. Once the 30 days hold has expired payment will be required of the outstanding balance of £170.00. Failure to make payment will result in a Claim being issued against you without any further reference. 

Payment can be made via bank transfer to our designated client account: - 

•                     Account Name: DCB Legal Ltd Client Account  

•                     Sort Code: 20-24-09  

•                     Account Number: 60964441 

You must quote the correct case reference (XXXXXXXXXX) when making payment. If you do not, we may be unable to correctly allocate the payment. If further action is taken by us as a result of an incorrect reference being quoted, you will be liable for any further fees or costs incurred. 

Alternatively, you can contact DCB Legal Ltd on 0203 838 7038 to make payment over the telephone or online at https://dcblegal.co.uk/response/pay-online/ 

Kind Regards,

XXXXX XXXXXXX