Simple understanding of managed migration please

2

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  • Spoonie_Turtle
    Spoonie_Turtle Posts: 8,410 Forumite
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    Log into your UC account select "Report a Change of Circumstances" then select  "Money, savings and investments" then "make a change".
    You then report your actual capital.
    CoL payments are disregarded no matter what month they were paid in,  so add the total of all your CoL payments and that's the figure that's disregarded. Unless they change the law CoL payments are disregarded  forever.
    It's just income that is disregarded for the AP.
    Just to clarify, that is if they're not spent (i.e. they wouldn't be disregarded from the total amount if you've spent them, savings go below the combined amounts of the COL payments, then come into more money again).
  • it475
    it475 Posts: 11 Forumite
    First Post
    thanks,useful info to be aware off so I appreciate your time pointing this out.
    to be honest I went on my journal to ask and they put it on my to do list to update a change and then they want to know so much that I gave up and cancelled it in case I made mistakes in the confusion of what they ask.
    i will deduct these payments from my next statement though.
    I thought that part of the migration was that you was allowed upto 16000 anyhow for the first 12 months so I have obviously got a lot of learning to do.
  • Newcad
    Newcad Posts: 911 Forumite
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    edited 6 February at 2:19PM
    Thanks, that clears things up a bit.
    I'm a bit late replying and the others have already mostly covered this, but here are my thoughts:
    It was the deduction for savings above £6k, and the deduction for your take home pay that we were missing.
    The rest does look correct, (depending on if your income is correct), and it's good to see they have picked up that a Carer Element is payable.
    The £748.53 for a TE will be calculated from the figures they got from HMRC.
    There is then a difference in what CA you get paid for 4-weeks (£307.00) as opposed to what is deducted from UC each month for CA (£332.58).
    That's because there will be 13x 4-weekly CA payments but only 12x UC payments.
    So if you have the CA paid 4-weekly there will be a month each year where you get paid 2 lots of CA but only get one deduction from UC.
    Overall you do seem to have lost out slightly, principally because of the deduction for self-employed income.
    But it's not as bad as you first thought, and things will get better if you are awarded LCW or LCWRA after you have had a Work Capability Assesment.
    So a couple of notes on the LCW/LCWRA awards.
    Either one of those awards, LCW or LCWRA, would in these circumstances increase your UC payments.
    Either one would reduce/stop any jobseeking conditionality for you too.

    If you were awarded LCWRA that would mean another Element for it would be added to your UC payments, however all that would do here is have the efect to also reduce the Transitional Element payable leaving the same overall payment.
    That's called 'erosion' of the TE as the standard UC entitlement increases. All TE's are subject to it.

    What would count is that with either LCW/LCWRA you are entitled to a 'Work Allowance' which is an amount of money that you can earn before any deductions for income are made.
    As you have no Housing Element included in your UC then that Work Allowance would be £631 (£673 after April) that you could earn before deductions.
    (So for an example the deduction for income on your above statement would have been: £1,079.75-£631=£488.75 x0.55= £246.81 to be deducted rather than the  £593.86 that was).


  • it475
    it475 Posts: 11 Forumite
    First Post
    Wow,that’s a very detailed explanation and in a way that makes sense,you ought to get a job at dwp!
    I understand now and as I am doing less and less because of my health I can see that my profits will be going down.
    i do apologise if I come across as being clueless,because I certainly am.
    one more minor issue I have now but not money related…….
    i have a appointment booked by the job centre with my work coach to prove I am building my business up,yet I retire in less than 12 months and have too much work as it is more so that I am off sick so how do people prove this,all of which I did point out at my initial interview.
  • it475
    it475 Posts: 11 Forumite
    First Post
    Can I please clarify the savings aspect as everything I am reading says that when tc ask you to migrate to uc you have a 12 month period when savings are disregarded.upto 16k
  • peteuk
    peteuk Posts: 1,326 Forumite
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    edited 10 February at 4:58PM
    There are two thresholds for savings/capital these are as follow. 
    Above £6K - your UC claim will be reduced by £4.35 for every £250 above £6K
    Above £16K - there is no entitlement to UC. 

    As you are migrating the disregard applies to anything above £16K, you will be allows to claim for a year but once that year is over should nothing change then your UC claim will finish. 

    If you spend any of this it will be reviewed and depending on what you do it may be classed as deprivation of capital.  Equally once you drop below £16K the above £6K rules apply and should you then go back above £16K I believe you wont restart or continue on your transition protection. 

    I believe if you have above £6K then there is no disregard because you will only be reduced by £4.35 per £250. In this situation I’m not sure about transition protection. 

    Capital isn’t just saving, it includes a second property or a property you own but do not live in. 
    Proud to have dealt with our debts
    Starting debt 2005 £65.7K.
    Current debt ZERO.
    DEBT FREE
  • Spoonie_Turtle
    Spoonie_Turtle Posts: 8,410 Forumite
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    peteuk said:
    There are two thresholds for savings/capital these are as follow. 
    Above £6K - your UC claim will be reduced by £4.35 for every £250 above £6K
    Above £16K - there is no entitlement to UC. 

    As you are migrating the disregard applies to anything above £16K, you will be allows to claim for a year but once that year is over should nothing change then your UC claim will finish. 

    If you spend any of this it will be reviewed and depending on what you do it may be classed as deprivation of capital.  Equally once you drop below £16K the above £6K rules apply and should you then go back above £16K I believe you wont restart or continue on your transition protection. 

    I believe if you have above £6K then there is no disregard because you will only be reduced by £4.35 per £250. In this situation I’m not sure about transition protection. 

    Capital isn’t just saving, it includes a second property or a property you own but do not live in. 
    Not sure on this, as it's disregarded it's as if it doesn't exist for UC purposes.  However it would certainly be foolish to spend it willy-nilly in the hope it'll be okay and enable continued entitlement to UC.

    The TP that notionally means people shouldn't be worse off in theory should apply, to 'top-up' the award if the deduction for savings over £6k would make them worse off than on TC.  In theory.  (We've seen the TP doesn't always make sure nobody is worse off, although that's usually been when there's income that TC doesn't count that UC does.)
  • it475
    it475 Posts: 11 Forumite
    First Post
    thanks you so much for the explanations,doubt I will be spending willy nilly so at least now I can understand it,unlikely to go above 16k or drop below 6k.
    i have been considering replacing my car but whatever i sell it for (15k) would take me above the 16k temporarily till i replace it so i maybe better just keeping it rather than rock the boat.
  • peteuk
    peteuk Posts: 1,326 Forumite
    First Post Name Dropper First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    peteuk said:
    There are two thresholds for savings/capital these are as follow. 
    Above £6K - your UC claim will be reduced by £4.35 for every £250 above £6K
    Above £16K - there is no entitlement to UC. 

    As you are migrating the disregard applies to anything above £16K, you will be allows to claim for a year but once that year is over should nothing change then your UC claim will finish. 

    If you spend any of this it will be reviewed and depending on what you do it may be classed as deprivation of capital.  Equally once you drop below £16K the above £6K rules apply and should you then go back above £16K I believe you wont restart or continue on your transition protection. 

    I believe if you have above £6K then there is no disregard because you will only be reduced by £4.35 per £250. In this situation I’m not sure about transition protection. 

    Capital isn’t just saving, it includes a second property or a property you own but do not live in. 
    Not sure on this, as it's disregarded it's as if it doesn't exist for UC purposes.  However it would certainly be foolish to spend it willy-nilly in the hope it'll be okay and enable continued entitlement to UC.

    The TP that notionally means people shouldn't be worse off in theory should apply, to 'top-up' the award if the deduction for savings over £6k would make them worse off than on TC.  In theory.  (We've seen the TP doesn't always make sure nobody is worse off, although that's usually been when there's income that TC doesn't count that UC does.)
    Spending any of the £16K - was meant to imply depending on what they spend it on depends on if it will be viewed as deprivation. 

    As for the £6K I wasn’t sure of the TP because theres been a couple of different interpretations of the rules. Again does dropping below £6K and then going back above it stop any TP as it suggests a change in circumstances.

    Proud to have dealt with our debts
    Starting debt 2005 £65.7K.
    Current debt ZERO.
    DEBT FREE
  • Spoonie_Turtle
    Spoonie_Turtle Posts: 8,410 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper
    peteuk said:
    peteuk said:
    There are two thresholds for savings/capital these are as follow. 
    Above £6K - your UC claim will be reduced by £4.35 for every £250 above £6K
    Above £16K - there is no entitlement to UC. 

    As you are migrating the disregard applies to anything above £16K, you will be allows to claim for a year but once that year is over should nothing change then your UC claim will finish. 

    If you spend any of this it will be reviewed and depending on what you do it may be classed as deprivation of capital.  Equally once you drop below £16K the above £6K rules apply and should you then go back above £16K I believe you wont restart or continue on your transition protection. 

    I believe if you have above £6K then there is no disregard because you will only be reduced by £4.35 per £250. In this situation I’m not sure about transition protection. 

    Capital isn’t just saving, it includes a second property or a property you own but do not live in. 
    Not sure on this, as it's disregarded it's as if it doesn't exist for UC purposes.  However it would certainly be foolish to spend it willy-nilly in the hope it'll be okay and enable continued entitlement to UC.

    The TP that notionally means people shouldn't be worse off in theory should apply, to 'top-up' the award if the deduction for savings over £6k would make them worse off than on TC.  In theory.  (We've seen the TP doesn't always make sure nobody is worse off, although that's usually been when there's income that TC doesn't count that UC does.)
    Spending any of the £16K - was meant to imply depending on what they spend it on depends on if it will be viewed as deprivation. 

    As for the £6K I wasn’t sure of the TP because theres been a couple of different interpretations of the rules. Again does dropping below £6K and then going back above it stop any TP as it suggests a change in circumstances.

    The disregard of savings over £16k would end if savings dropped below (because there's no longer anything to disregard).

    The transitional protection element of UC would stay the same, I believe* - it's an amount calculated based on notional awards at the time of migration.  So relatively minor fluctuations of income or savings shouldn't affect it, only larger changes like the claim changing to joint or single, or UC ending.  Or earnings falling below a certain threshold, if they were above it at the time of migration.

    *but I am fuzzy on it, still, so always very happy to be corrected!
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