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NCP auto pay failure PCN to keeper

Hello everyone

I currently have a lease car.  I work in Manchester and often park at the NCP at Great Northern.  

I have recently received three parking charge notices from the NCP for failing to pay for my parking.  These were issued as notice to keeper, to the lease company, who has forwarded these on to me.  They have also provided a third party authorisation letter which provides 
the NCP with my details as lessee.  It specifically refers to me as “Driver/Customer”

I have the NCP app and have signed up for auto pay.  However, I understand that payments have not been taken due to maintenance taking place at the site.  The auto pay facility is therefore not working.  There has been no communication from the NCP in respect of this, nor are there signs around the car park informing customers of this. 

I have read a couple of threads on here on this where people have appealed the notices as registered keeper and have refused to provide the driver details. 

I wanted to ask whether the same would apply here given the lease company is in fact the registered keeper of the vehicle? Therefore, how do I complete the appeal, as driver? Registered keeper? Or hirer?  Do I acknowledge that I was driving the vehicle at the time? 

In addition, I have read the protection of freedoms act sch 4 and note that there could be an issue re timing as the receipt of the PCNs as haven’t been issued within the 15 days as stipulated in schedule 4, para 9.  

I intend to appeal on the grounds that the NCP has not notified re changes to payment options, faults with the auto pay technology and also not issuing the notice to keeper on time.  

Any help or success stories welcomed on this.  Total of £300 at stake here! 
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Comments

  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,138
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    Has the lease company formally contacted NCP in writing and transferred liability to you as the hirer?  Have you received anything directly from NCP?  You will be dealing with this as the hirer (not driver). 

    Don't appeal anything at this stage until you've received a Notice to Hirer directly from NCP. 
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • emalms
    emalms Posts: 9
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    Thanks for your response.  The lease company has transferred the liability of these fines and has written to the NCP to provide my details and enable them to reissue the fines directly to me.  I have not received any further correspondence from the NCP at this stage.
  • Le_Kirk
    Le_Kirk Posts: 21,927
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    As advised by @Umkomaas wait for your Notice to Hirer but also contact the lease company and tell them that you are dealing with the PCN and under no circumstances are they to pay the speculative invoice.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,237
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    These are not fines.

    When the NTHs arrive, appeal each one using the Edna_basher hire/company car appeal near the bottom of the first post of the NEWBIES thread. 
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • emalms
    emalms Posts: 9
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    Two parking notice to hirers received today.  State that they were sent on 30 January however only received today, five working days later.  Interesting the letter states that it was deemed to be given to me on the second working day after sending… 
  • Debszzzz2
    Debszzzz2 Posts: 189
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    edited 6 February at 7:26PM
    Did the NtHs include all the required additional paperwork as required under PoFA in order to hold the hirer liable? Check here, Section 13(2)(a), (b) and (c):
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted
  • emalms
    emalms Posts: 9
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    Thank you.  I’ve checked 13(2) and note that only (a) has been met.  The lease company has sent a statement to confirm the details of the hirer and the dates of the relevant hire agreement. The NTH confirms this by stating “we are advised that you were the driver at the time the parking charge was incurred and that you are liable for payment of the same.”


     (b) has not been met as a copy of the hire agreement was not provided by the lease company 


    (c) has not been met as the lease company has not issued a statement of liability signed by thee hirer under the hire agreement. 

  • Debszzzz2
    Debszzzz2 Posts: 189
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    The lease company cannot know who was driving at the time so the statement we are advised that you were the driver at the time the parking charge was incurred and that you are liable for payment of the same.” is an untruth. All the lease company could have said is that you were the hirer of the vehicle.

    So, if PoFA 13(2) has not been strictly adhered to, they are unable to transfer liability to the hirer. 
    Only the driver is liable and they do not know the identity of the driver... do they? There is no legal obligation to reveal the identity of the driver to an unregulated private parking company.
  • emalms
    emalms Posts: 9
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    Great - thank you.  I’ll appeal on these grounds using the templates provided referring to Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.  Any suggestions re timing of submission of the appeal? Shall I wait 21 days to ensure that 14(3) has expired? 
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 129,237
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    None of it has not been met if they didn't enclose anything.  DO NOT wait 21 days.  Maybe day 18 (counting from 30th Jan) is about right.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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